Table top bread boards

[crokett]

Paul,
I have seen mitered breadboards done like in both of Ray's pics. I prefer the look of the 2nd one but your preference may be different. The first pic is also slightly trickier from a technical perspective since you are not mitering all the way through the two end boards.

As far as wood movement goes, about 20 yrs ago my dad built my mom a 10x4 dining room table. He used mitered breadboards. What he did was a very long toungue (about 1") and groove on the miters then pinned them with dowels from the bottom. The miters are still as tight as they were when he made them.

[RayintheUK]

The first pic is also slightly trickier from a technical perspective since you are not mitering all the way through the two end boards.

David's right, Paul, that part-miter cut is a bit tricky to get absolutely tight. However, it doesn't require the larger width of breadboard as the second "picture frame" style does, so that may be an advantage.

As far as wood movement goes, about 20 yrs ago my dad built my mom a 10x4 dining room table. He used mitered breadboards. What he did was a very long toungue (about 1") and groove on the miters then pinned them with dowels from the bottom. The miters are still as tight as they were when he made them.

Absolutely agree, that's the way to do breadboard edges - worth the extra effort every time!

Ray.

[SARGE..g-47]

Sorry to be so late, but was away during the afternoon and over-nite, Paul. I think the guys nailed it if you are going to use them. The wood movement issue is why I posted in my first post that they are not my first choice. I like the looks of them in certain arena's, but I want all thing accounted for before my final decision.

Part of designing for yourself is to take all things in consideration, IMO. Here in Atlanta, Ga. we have high humidity in summer and not so in winter. Radical swing. Various soft-wood and hard-woods have different levels of expansion and contraction across and along the grain. I would also consider how much of the top is exposed beyond the end strechers without any way of pinning from under-neath. And last, how well are they going to be sealed (what finish and how much?).

And if I did decide to go with them.. the guys have already given you what you need to know to keep them in prespective for years to come. And even then, we will not always be correct as mother nature and wood properties has never and will never be 100% predictable. We can only base decisions on info we have at hand currently and past track records of what has worked under certain conditions.

With all that's been said by all......... "get er done"! :>)

[SARGE..g-47]

BTW.. I would also look at how the piece will be displayed. End table where end-grain will be prominent focus of attention or long grain as in a hall table? Breakfast nook or dining table where every side is openly viewed? Etc., etc..

And last, I tryed to edit and add this. I added it after hitting edit and just hit the submit replay display again. Nothing.. I am envious of those that can display a graph (as Ray) or figure out how to simply edit without asking the "First Lady" (that cost me expensive dining) and is a last resort. :>)

HELP.. guys to the rescue of what is and remains "just a dumb ole country boy" that is computer semi-illiterate. Guilty, your honor! ha.. ha...

[SARGE..g-47]

Brought up for Scott's question on bread-boards...

[JimD]

To each his own but I do not like these mitered bread board ends. If you do this be sure to finish throughly on all sides because you are fighting the cross grain movement of the main piece of the top.

I have a hall table (or could be a sofa table with different arrangement of house/furniture) built from a design in FWW. The breadboard is made purposely 2 inches longer than the main top and then cut on the top and bottom on a 45 degree angle to make a kind of pointed shape. It is still end grain that shows but not as bluntly end grain if it was straight cut. This also solves the issue of the top changing width but the breadboard staying relatively the same (which will split a mitered breadboard).

The end tables and coffee table in my family room are simplier Mission style without breadboard ends but with the end grain showing. I think they look fine. They are red oak. The finish is clear poly. The end grain may be slightly darker but I think it looks good. When you see end grain you can at least be sure it is solid wood you are looking at. My only issue with end grain is that it is harder to sand. With a belt sander, you can do it quicker but have to be careful not to burn.

Jim

[SARGE..g-47]

And I agree as said before, JD. If you are using the same wood (and why wouldn't you?) for the bread-board, it is known that wood will expand and contract with moisture variances more across the grain than with the grain. I am suspect of that and therefore avoid the bread-boards in an attempt to alleviate potential problems in the future.

As far as the PITA of sanding and avoiding a burnishing with that belt sander, it opens up a new opporturnity for the wood-worker. This would be a great place to introduce yourself to the use of the simplest of hand planes. A low-angle block plane "shines" at this task and forget the element of over-heating that can burnish or burn the end grain pores.

Regards...

[jabe]

David's dad technique is the way to go. Grooving your frame work and making it 1/8" deeper than the tongue and pinning it with a dowel and making the hole in the tongue slotted to allow for movement. This technique was shown by Norm in NYW many times. Although not fool proof as every environment is different and you can't fool mother nature but it'll give your joint a chance.
As for end grain getting darker when finishing, you can apply mineral oil on the end grain b4 applying the stain, if not staining, let it dry 24 hrs. b4 applying the finish. It will still get a little darker than the surface grain but not by much. Next bet is to apply shelac to the end grain. Different species of wood reacts differently so you'll have to play around with this.

[JimD]

A normal un-mitered breadboard should not split the top. You just don't glue the whole thing. If the top will be more visible on one edge than the other, glue that end of the breadboard for a few inches. Pin the other end (or pin both ends if you make the pin show, I would put underneith). On the table I describe above, I glued the middle and the design has screws under walnut plugs in slotted holes for the other attachment.

I have used a plane on end grain but generally just work carefully with a sander. I need to master a scraper in addition to the plane but haven't yet. The dust may someday push me into the plane/scrape method but sanding works.

Jim

[big tim]

There's an article in the Oct, 2006 issue of Woodworker's Journal by Ian Kirby about "Butt joints and Breadboard Ends".

Tim