Bed joinery questions

[zedzeo]

Hi ya'll, it's been a while since I've been around here (stupid grad school) but I'm planning on building a bed and I wanted to get your wise opinions on how I should go about it.

I want to build this bed:

http://www.cb2.com/family.aspx?c=400&f=2082

but $400 is a bit much. I'd rather get a planer. It looks simple enough for me to knock together.

But I'm having a bit of a time trying to figure out the best way to go about joining up the corners. I've never done mortise and tenons and to be honest they scare me - a little. But on the other hand I want to challenge myself a bit. Grow as a woodworker and all that. Also, I live in a rented third floor studio (yes, I've moved the workshop from my old apartment's balcony to my father's garage 100 miles away), so ideally, this bed would be easy to disassemble and carry up the narrow stairway to my apartment. And disassemble/reassemble again when I inevitably move in a year.

I was thinking of using a half lap joint for the horizontal pieces and pining them together with a tenon on the vertical piece. Would I need to glue this up? Or would it hold together with just friction. Remember, I spend far too much time at school in front of a computer for there to be too much 'acrobatics' taking place on the bed, so there shouldn't be a lot of stress on the joints. I was thinking also of doing a mortise and tenon brace in the middle of the long side of the bed.

Then, there is the straight forward, brute force way which would be to cut, drill pocket holes, and finish the bed in the workshop and just assemble it in the apartment. It seems to me that the wood would wear away after removing and reinserting the screws. How many times should I be able to do that?

So which way would you do it? The fancy woodworker way or the simpler get 'er done way. And more importantly, which one will not result in an unpleasant one foot drop in the middle of the night? Any thoughts on the minimum thickness of the boards? The original is steel

Thanks for your help.
Farhan

[RayintheUK]

The original is steel.

I'm not surprised that the original is in steel, because that's the only material I can imagine will cope with the forces acting on the corners. The central leg (just visible) is probably in the middle of the slat support that runs the length of the bed. However, the side rails will need to be able to take a rebate for the slats, so I doubt very much that you will be able to reproduce the dimensions of that frame in wood that will last more than a couple of minutes.

In spite of your comment about "acrobatics," there are a number of forces acting on the frame, other than vertical ones! If you're going to build it in wood, I'd reckon to double the size of the steel frame dimensions in each direction. The central brace on the long sides may help, but it won't solve all of the weight issues that this small frame will have.

Sorry, guess that's not what you wanted to hear, but safety doesn't only apply to the workshop - it applies to all the projects that come out of it as well.

Ray.

[gmack5]

Possible alternative

I don't know what SIZE you have in mind, but a Queen size bed mattress measures 60" wide X 80" long and is a good DIY size.

If you were to construct a pair of drawer units that were 80" long X 20" deep, each containing 4 drawers, and a drawer unit that was 20" X 20", then assemble them into a rectangle, you would have a base for your bed with a fair amount of storage under it (9 drawers).

The details of how to close up the resulting 20" X 60" cavity in the center, I'll leave to your imagination.

[SwingKing]

I don't know what SIZE you have in mind, but a Queen size bed mattress measures 60" wide X 80" long and is a good DIY size.

If you were to construct a pair of drawer units that were 80" long X 20" deep, each containing 4 drawers, and a drawer unit that was 20" X 20", then assemble them into a rectangle, you would have a base for your bed with a fair amount of storage under it (9 drawers).

The details of how to close up the resulting 20" X 60" cavity in the center, I'll leave to your imagination.

FYI, this is almost exactly how the base to my waterbed is constructed. My bed has three drawers on each side, set into a particle board grid something like a torsion box. This supports a sheet of plywood, which supports the waterbed mattress. If it can support all that water weight, I'm sure it could support a regular queen mattress, even with Olympic level "acrobatics".

-- Ken

[LCHIEN]

I'm with Ray, the original is steel frame construction, probably welded at the joints.

I don't think you can build one of wood with say 1-1/2" square members that will be strong enough not to sag and have no supports the length of the sides.

there are ways to build something similar of wood and have more strength
but it would probably involve at least an additional seet of vertical members along the side.

And adult acrobatics aside, if you are of child-bearing age at some point the kids will be playing trampoline on it whilst you are trying to sleep in it.

[JimD]

I have made a couple of beds with rails made of 1 inch thick hardwood 6 to 7 inches tall. One is on a queen and the other on a full. They work fine. You might want to try the sagulator program and pretend the rails are a shelf to get a feel for what might work. The deflection equation treats the dimension in the vertical direction to the fourth power if my memory is working right - you get far more stiffness from the material oriented veritical than you do with the 1 inch thickness dimension of my rails. This is the tough part of the design you are thinking of. You would be near the cross sectional area of my rails with a 2 and 1/2 inch square member but your deflection would be greater because the mass is not oriented as well from a deflection standpoint. Maybe if you went up to 3 x 3 inches? I do not know that the look would be similar with pieces this large. I would draw it out and make sure you like the look.

If I built this of 3x3 hardwood, I would probably make the two outsides with permanently glued together joints and bolted joints for the cross pieces. Mitered joints reinforced with biscuits would look good and should be strong enough (with at least two and preferably 3 biscuits per joint). I would probably put a brass threaded insert into the cross pieces and bolt through the long sides. A wooden plug could hide the bolt or you can get plastic plugs or you could use bed bolt covers. If you bolt into a threaded insert you should be able to take it apart as often as you need to.

I used 3/4 baltic birch plywood for the slats on the full size bed and a solid platform on the queen. I think the slats are better. The deflection is slight which is not all bad, they allow the mattress to breath better, and they are much easier to transport. I would not knotch the top piece of the side to support the slats - that is a high stress area. I would add an angle iron or another 1 inch thick piece of wood on the inside for slat support.

Jim

[dkhoward]

I;d got to HF, buy a med priced wire welder, a 4.5" grinder and apaint gun . . . . That should go together in just a matter of hours.

[Popeye]

Well here's my 2 cents. If I can make it understandable. ? Does the bed have to look exactly like the one in the picture or would something similar do?
If something similar will do then try this:
Make the end and sides from a double thickness of 3/4" plywood. Add a vertical post in the center of both the sides and ends. In other words use plywood and cut openings so it resembles a welded frame. Put 2 x 2 posts at the corners to secure the ends and sides. Use carrage bolts and paint the heads to match the bed frame. Make a center cross piece that matches the ends for the middle support. Add either slats or a solid piece of plywood for the mattress to lay on.
Now that I think about it this is kind of like making a platform bed with large holes. I might be out to lunch, wouldn't be the first time but I think it would work. Pat

[leehljp]

My idea is almost identical to Popeye's, only I was going to suggest 3X3 or 4X4 corner posts just to add more beef there.

[crokett]

I;d got to HF, buy a med priced wire welder, a 4.5" grinder and apaint gun . . . . That should go together in just a matter of hours.

What Dennis said - you gotta be able to get a welder and materials for less than or a little more than the cost of the bed new. At the end of it you've learned a new skill and you have a new tool. Or you can sell the welder.