I hate finishing!

[Wood_workur]

I have been working on putting a finish on my red oak coffee table, which in this case is a coat of stain, and some Urathane from Rockler. I have been staining for the last cuple of days, and Its looks a little blochy in some parts. For example, there was spot of glue that wouldn't take stain, so I sanded it down, but now the spot where I sanded is a little lighter. And all the inside corners are a little blochy, because it is so hard to get into the corners.

So my questions:

What is the best way to finish inside corners?
Does red oak normally bloch?
What can I do about the blochness?
Would the HVLP sprayer from Rockler give me better results, even though it hasn't gotten to good reviews?
I have had to do several coats, because I can't get to all surfaces at once. Could that be the problem?
Is clear coat easier to put on that stain?

[bigsteel15]

I picked up the recent Fine Woodworking Finishing Special edition.
It has got me feeling a little better about actually putting a finish on a project in the near future.
I highly recommend picking it up.
Everything I've read says glue is your worst enemy when finishing. They always recommend wiping excess glue off with a wet rag after it has partially set, being sure to not spread it around as it plugs the pores of the wood.

[Sawatzky]

I got a lot of bloches when I did my first project with red oak. I hand rubbed the stain with a rag, but it look awful. Then I learned a secret. The staining takes two stages. Stage one to wipe on all the stain, fully covering the wood and then some. The second stage is to wipe all the exess off and smooth with another clean rag. This technique works great for me, and I alliminated the bloches.

[Wood_workur]

I got a lot of bloches when I did my first project with red oak. I hand rubbed the stain with a rag, but it look awful. Then I learned a secret. The staining takes two stages. Stage one to wipe on all the stain, fully covering the wood and then some. The second stage is to wipe all the exess off and smooth with another clean rag. This technique works great for me, and I alliminated the bloches.

Can I do that over my finish, or do I have to strip the finish?

EDIT; I put a coat on with that method, and Itworked beautifully. Thanks for your help.

[kwgeorge]

For future endeavors;


One of the best ways to deal with corners and joinery when staining a piece is to pre-stain all the parts prior to assembly. Tape off areas where glue squeeze out will occur and clean up any squeeze out right away. To get a better finish I really like to coat the piece with a sealer coat first. This will make the stain apply much more uniformly and that is a big help with an open grain wood.

[atgcpaul]

Fill the pores or go with a gel stain

One thing you'll see a lot with finishing red oak is to
use a pore filler. I think they sell this at Rockler, too.
You can make your own by using wet dry sand paper to make a
slurry with your stain to push this into the pores. Then
you'll get a smoother finish on the oak rather than having
all those crevices. You can probably still do this with your
project.

Gel stains are also a good alternative to the liquid stains
to prevent blotching. I don't really use any liquid stains
anymore. I find the gel stains a lot easier to apply and a
lot more forgiving. It's either dyes, clear oil finishes,
or gel stains for me.

When I make frame and panel doors, I always stain the
panel first before installing it into the frame. For my
last big furniture piece, I prestained (oil with a tint
added) any part I thought would be hard to get at before
assembly. This does require a lot more forethought and
carefully masking of key parts, but in the end it really
saved me a lot of time and headaches.

Paul

[drumpriest]

Splotchy finishing is from bad application, as described above, except where glue has gone. I've had issues with glue and red oak as well. It's really problematic using oak veneer plywood. Red oak is porous, and with veneer, a little glue can saturate the top layer, and it can NEVER be finished well.

I now tape my joints before gluing, then let the glue dry for about 15 minutes, then scrape the squeeze-out off with a screwdriver. Let cure for the rest of an hour. Remove the tape, and clean up with a hand scaper. A pain in the butt, for sure, but it's solved my problems with glue and red oak.

I'm not a fan of pour fillers, honestly, mostly because they tend to be carsenogenic. Wonderfill is sold at Rockler and I think at woodcraft, but again, it's a known carsenogen.

Paul brings up a great point too, pre-staining can help a ton for stained projects, pre-stain and tape off, and you'll have nothing but a little touch-up whe you are done.

[atgcpaul]

I'm not a fan of pour fillers, honestly, mostly because they tend to be carsenogenic. Wonderfill is sold at Rockler and I think at woodcraft, but again, it's a known carsenogen.

Yikes! That I did not know! Is it only through the skin or airborne? I always
wear gloves anyway. I work in a lab where nearly every chemical bottle I
use has a skull and cross bones on it. Good thing I started this WWing thing
early In a recent Fine WWing, the finishing expert used plaster of paris as
a pore filler. Once you put on an oil finish, the white of the plaster
disappears. I think he did it with walnut which is not as opened grain as red
oak but the result was pretty cool.




Paul

[drumpriest]

I would imagine that it would be in the airborne particles. I've not really had issues with "blotchiness" when staining my oak, must by the method, which is very much as Sawatzki describes.

I would think for me, the filler would just smooth out the top coat.

[JimD]

I rarely stain. When I do, my technique is a bit different. I wipe the stain on rubbing it in if necessary but not allowing it to set at all before wiping off any excess and going on to the next area. I apply a little more or less to each successive area to make the color the same. I typically use minwax oil based.

I essentially never stain red oak. I like the look of nice red -red oak with a clear finish. Clear finishes will also show up where you missed glue but not as much as will stain. You have to worry about runs with clear finish that you do not with stain but I think overall they are easier to apply (particularly wipe on poly). Spraying is probably the trickiest at first. If you do not put on enough, you get a rough surface (orange peel). If you put on too much, you get a run or a sag. Wipe on is the easiest for me with brushing in between. Spraying is the fastest and, if you know what you are doing, probably produces the best result.

Jim

[bigsteel15]

I'm not a fan of pour fillers, honestly, mostly because they tend to be carsenogenic. Wonderfill is sold at Rockler and I think at woodcraft, but again, it's a known carsenogen.

Are you talking about Rottenstone?

[drumpriest]

No Rottenstone is used for rub-out finishes, I'm talking about "wonderfill"

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...GMGMDADADADBDB

[jabe]

Aloha all,

As others mentioned wipe off any glue with a damp rag ASAP. If you missed wiping a spot and it's dried, do not sand it, use a scraper and scrape it off. Sanding dried glue will heat it up and make it migrate further into the pores of the wood in other words, it'll seal the wood so it won't accept the stain. Hence the light color.
Before staining a project, oil all end grains as it tends to suck more than surface grain. I used mineral oil the kind used as a laxative it's clear, non toxic and cheap. You can stain right after applying the mineral oil, you don't have to wait till the oil dry. Wipe or brush on stain and wipe off, do not let it dry. The longer you leave the stain on will make it darker. On a large project stain only what you can wipe off in the time you alot to get the shade you want. So be systematic and keep the stain on the same amount of time for each section so you'll get a even color.
To get the inside corners, use a thin pointed stick shaped like a knife blade(do not use a hard material like metal for this as it will dent or mar the surface) wrapped with a rag to get into the corners or crevices and wipe the excess stain.
I usually don't stain my wood as I like the natural color and I don't use any fillers. So this is what I do, I mix my own oil finish by mixing 16 fl. oz. of boiled linseed oil with 16 fl. oz. of gum turpentine and 1 oz. of Japan drier. If you don't use the Japan Drier, the linseed oil will not dry. The linseed oil will condition the wood, the turpentine is the carrier and drier will dry it. This mixture is cheaper than Tung oil & WATCO oil. I apply with a brush or rag sparingly and I sand the oil into the wood with 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Do not drown the wood with the oil just use enough to cover the area and only 1 coat. The sanding dust mixes with the oil that fills the pores of the wood, wipe off any excess accross the grain. Let it dry a couple of days. Dispose of all rags in a covered metal container as rags soaked with linseed oil is notorious for spontaneous combustion!
I use deft clear lacquer gloss for the 1st & 2nd coats (Gloss is a harder finish than satin) sand with 320 between coats and wipe with tack cloth b4 spraying next coat. I like Deft lacquer as it is forgiving and does not cloud when there is too much humidity. The 3rd and final coat I use Deft Satin clear lacquer, I don't like the Hi-Gloss look, it makes the furniture look cheap. Let dry overnite, polish with mineral oil on a rag with pumice to get all the overspray off. Then rub it with rag w/mineral oil & rottenstone to get a smooth hand rubbed shine. Then wax it with Tree wax.
This is what I taught my students for 26 yrs. and many of them won State furniture/cabinet making contest in Hawaii.

[wassaw998]

I'm not a fan of pour fillers, honestly, mostly because they tend to be carsenogenic.

Do you know what in the fillers is the carsenogen? I guess I'm dead, I just tried using Bartley Paste Wood Filler (on red oak), and it was such of a disaster I had to end up sanding it all off.

I have an article in FWW where Jeff Jewitt is recommending using just 4F Pumice and BLO, or, Plaster of Paris, as fillers, both which sound at least safe, not sure how they work. As it stands, before I am done my 5/4 table top is gona be about 1/32" thick...

[drumpriest]

I don't know what component is the carsinogen, honestly, but many labels of them will have the california warning. Do take that with a grain of salt, as I'm sure limited exposure won't be an issue. As with most carsinogens it is prolonged and repeated exposure that causes issues, unless your biochemistry happens to be hyper sensitive for some reason.

I personally do scrape off my glue excess, I've found that with red oak veneered ply it's better to not even try and water wipe off the glue, as the watered down glue can spread and saturate the veneer layer quite quickly. I've gotten good results by taping off the glue edges, let it bubble up onto the tape, let dry for about 30 mins, take the tape off and scrape clean. (hand scraper)