Faceframe Options

[Tarheel]

Hi,
I am currently building a small cabinet out of 3/4" oak ply. I have made a faceframe out of 4/4 red oak for the front, but now wondering about the best method of attaching it to the carcass. I don't really want to use pocket screws and certainly not brads that will leave holes that will need to be filled.

Any idea's? Would it be ok to just apply a generous amount of glue (Titebond II)? The frame should not have any stress applied to it for everyday use.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Tequila]

Why not pocket screws?

The last cabinet I built before I owned a pocket screw jig, I attached the face frame with biscuits. I'm happy with the way it turned out, but you'll need to be very careful with marking and alignment to get it all lined up right.

[drumpriest]

I now build my face frames from pocket screws. I used to do double dowel, or even M&T for it. I've used face frame biscuits, and they were a pain. Once you have the FF constructed, getting it onto the carcass depends upon a few things.

If the carcass is plywood, you can get a fairly strong joint with just glue. I reinforce that with some biscuits. You can then just clamp it on and wait, plenty strong. If you have a fixed shelf that has a side that won't be seen, you can use pocket screws there, without worrying about filling them. My desk was this way, as the top and bottom of each cabinet was just a dust frame, and wouldn't be visible once the desk top and drawers were installed.

The pocket screws in this instance do add strength, but the real advantage is that they act as clamps.

[just4funsies]

I've had good luck with biscuits. There is a special size (FF) just for that purpose. You need a 2" cutter wheel for this size.

[drumpriest]

Yeah, I have the PC, and the FF biscuits, and if you ask me, they are a bit of a joke. Pocket screws do a much better job, in my opinion. The only bad pard with pocket screws is that you need to ensure that they won't be visible. Biscuits have a bunch of great uses, I just don't feel that face frames are among them, the total surface area of 1/2 of a FF biscuit is really quite small, also you have to clamp up the face frame to ensure good co-planer joints, which is easier with pocket screws.

With pocket screws after you drive the screws, you remove the face clamp, with biscuits, you'd need to wait for the glue to dry.

[just4funsies]

Sorry to hear that you find my way a joke. It works for me. The time it takes for glue to dry does not bother me.

[drumpriest]

just4funsies, I mean no insult to you, if it works for you then great! It's just my opinion. In general the joint between the rails and stiles of a face frame need only be strong enough to hold the end of the rail co-planer, as they are usually backed with shelves and such. When they are floating in air (between drawers, for instance), I would be more concerned about strength.

Regardless, it's my opinion, and again, no insult to you.

[Tarheel]

Thanks a lot guys!

I personally think that both biscuits and pocket screws have their own merits.(The rails and stiles - I used dowels and am quit pleased.)

I think for this project I am going to just glue the FR to the carcass with a good application of glue. I don't have the confidence yet to ensure that I would get the biscuit slots to align correctly.

Thanks for all of your suggestions!

[Wood_workur]

Yeah, it all depends on what YOU like, so try all the methods listed, and decide which one works best for YOU. some people like dowels, some like biscuts, and some like pocket screws.

[JR]

I think for this project I am going to just glue the FR to the carcass with a good application of glue. I don't have the confidence yet to ensure that I would get the biscuit slots to align correctly.
!

Every time I thought that biscuits might be too difficult they ended up working out fine.

You might think about cutting slots in your carcass and in some scrap stock, just for the practice if nothing else. Even if you don't use biscuits in the final product, the slots would be covered by the face frame.

Just a thought.

JR

[meika123]

Thanks a lot guys!

I personally think that both biscuits and pocket screws have their own merits.(The rails and stiles - I used dowels and am quit pleased.)

I think for this project I am going to just glue the FR to the carcass with a good application of glue. I don't have the confidence yet to ensure that I would get the biscuit slots to align correctly.

Thanks for all of your suggestions!

Biscuits is definately the way to go. It really isn't tough at all.
(I do it)
Hold the pieces together, mark where you want the biscuits on each piece, and cut the holes. There is a little adjustment built into the slots.

Dave in NC

[LarryG]

I agree with JR and Dave (and anyone else who recommended biscuits). Even a few will greatly aid with alignment.

The caveat is if your face frames overhang the carcases any; a lot of cabinets are built with about a 1/16" overhang, so a slight misalignment won't matter. In that case, getting the slots cut so they'll match up is slightly more dicey.

[vaking]

I would advise against straight glue method for a different reason. As Tage Freid said - wood moves, plywood doesn't. The hardwood frame will change its dimensions with humidity, plywood is dimensionally stable. Simple glue joint may fail not because it is weak but because it is rigid. For attaching frame to plywood carcass I would suggest any kind of mechanical fastener. If pocket screws look too complicated - why not use few metal angle brackets on the inside of the cabinet? If metal brackets don't appeal to you - attach a small wooden block in the corner and screw the frame to it. Those methods are very forgiving in alignment.

[meika123]

I agree with JR and Dave (and anyone else who recommended biscuits). Even a few will greatly aid with alignment.

The caveat is if your face frames overhang the carcases any; a lot of cabinets are built with about a 1/16" overhang, so a slight misalignment won't matter. In that case, getting the slots cut so they'll match up is slightly more dicey.

That's exactly what I was thinking, but didn't want to confuse him further. He sounds a little frazzled now already.

Dave in NC

[Tarheel]

That's exactly what I was thinking, but didn't want to confuse him further. He sounds a little frazzled now already. Not really confused or frazzled guys!

I do in fact plan on a 1/16" overhang on the sides that I plan on trimming off with a flush trim bit in my router.

If I do try the biscuit route, do I register the joiner fence on the outside edge of the carcass and the face frame before cutting the biscuit slots?

Thanks again for all of the great ideas!!!!