Bought a 21833

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  • greenacres2
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 633
    • La Porte, IN
    • Ryobi BT3000

    Bought a 21833

    Well--i've had my BT3000 since 1996, but some of the threads lately on shims, belt prices, my want for a riving knife that's easier to remove, 6" of table in front of the blade for ripping, and weary of the lift to move caster system had gotten me thinking. I look at CL every day anyway, so a while back i started watching ads for TS, paying attention to sale e-mails, looking at how to raise funds, yada yada.

    Sears had the 21833 at $550, less 15% this weekend, brought the price down to $470. On a whim, i did a coupon search and found a $60 off tool purchase of $300 or more. Hmmm...$410, 5% discount for Sears card it's $389.

    I'd looked in person at the 21833 and the Ridgid 4512--really similar. I drove about 40 miles, where there's a Sears and HD close to each other and a HF not far away either (took a 20% off coupon). Stopped at Sears first, in-store deal was $650--sales guy was disinterested. Went to HD--showed them the price of the 21833 in my "cart", the HF coupon, pointed out my volunteer fire jacket, USAF hat, three miniature dark chocolate bars, and a scar from a rotator cuff surgery. Best they would do was 10% off--$449.

    The Ridgid has the 3 year warranty/lifetime service versus the C-man at 1 year. But--the C-man version is 15 amp versus the 4512 at 13 amp. It also includes a dado throat plate, a $25 or $30 extra on the 4512--and pretty thin to make. By my thinking that made the Ridgid $480 versus $390--and i had $30 in "reward points" so my cash was $360 (all plus tax).

    Bought the 21833 online from the Sears parking lot. I drive a 2002 Mercedes C-230 coupe--i can tell you that the Ridgid box is MUCH SMALLER than the Craftsman box. When i saw the box, i knew that it would be wise to drive over after church tomorrow in LOML's Scion xB--but i'm a man. Got enough of it stuffed in the back to use a ratchet strap and a prayer to make the 40 mile drive home. Was able to pull it out enough to stand the box on end and set it down--no live animals were injured. Got the upside down part assembled tonight, will recruit a few members of the youth group tomorrow to assist with the flipping--and we'll move on from there.

    As for the BT3000--once we're sure we've got a keeper, i'll probably put it on CL. I could probably net a little more parting out, but the packing and posting time would eat the pleasure. I will have a set of rails, most of an accessory kit, and a few other odds/ends for sale. Along with a few routers. I intended to raise the money first, but i figure i've got 30 days to get it done!!

    It was a hard thing to do, but a can't wait to finish and give it a shot. Hope it was the right call...for sure i'll miss the BT. I won't be missing BTCentral.com, i got no place to go!!

    earl
  • Cochese
    Veteran Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 1988

    #2
    Nice score, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

    May make a similar move in that direction myself.
    I have a little blog about my shop

    Comment

    • Knottscott
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2004
      • 3815
      • Rochester, NY.
      • 2008 Shop Fox W1677

      #3
      Excellent deal! I'm surprised the chocolate bars weren't worth more of a discount!
      Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

      Comment

      • RAV2
        Established Member
        • Aug 2007
        • 233
        • Massachusetts
        • 21829

        #4
        First time you move the saw to an "off site job" you'll know you made the right decision.

        Comment

        • tommyt654
          Veteran Member
          • Nov 2008
          • 2334

          #5
          Agreed its twice what the 4512 will ever be and is very similiar to the old 4511 tho I'm pretty sure it still has top mounted trunnions vs the 4511's cabinet mounts, still a great buy enjoy it,but keep an eye out for an old Unisaw for the shop ,One day you'll see and feel the difference, oneday I will too

          Comment

          • toolguy1000
            Veteran Member
            • Mar 2009
            • 1142
            • westchester cnty, ny

            #6
            welcome to the dark side and congrats on your buy. i'd have gone ridgid with the 3 year guaranty and the LSA and not been nearly as understanding as you were re the HF coupon. i've called HD corporate CS when reluctant managers have refused the coupon and corporate CS has instructed them to honor it. IMHO, the ridgid would, in that instance, have been a better deal, especially since the two saws are apparently identical where it counts.

            but that saw should serve you well. with proper set up and a sharp blade with the correct tooth count for the operation being performed, there is precious little it won't do that a unisaw will do in a hobbyists shop. that's why i sold my unisaw.

            i was, frankly, more surprised that anyone still shopped at sears.
            there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

            Comment

            • JoeyGee
              Veteran Member
              • Nov 2005
              • 1509
              • Sylvania, OH, USA.
              • BT3100-1

              #7
              Congrats. I have been thinking of getting that same saw. I've been looking at them for awhile. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions on it.
              Joe

              Comment

              • tommyt654
                Veteran Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 2334

                #8
                "little it won't do that a unisaw will do in a hobbyists shop", I have to laugh at that,but I'd guess I'm slightly more than a hobbyist then as I haven't found a Ridgid saw yet ,even the much better by far R4511 that I have that will cut thru 4/4 hard maple or oak like a good Unisaw will, granted they will barely when taking it slow and easy but to compare any of these saws to a Unisaw or Powermatic, even Jet is ludicrous at best from an inexperienced voice concerning power tools.Heck even as much as I dislike the owner a Sawstop runs circles around any Ridgid,Craftsman,Ryobi ever made much like the 2 aforementioned saws will.But you are correct for a small hobby shop like yours its fits perfect unless you have the need for real raw power and durability. I look forward to the day I can finally retire the R4511,then my next saw will be a Uni hands down the finest tablesaw ever crafted as far as the newest Ridgid, Meh.

                Comment

                • cwsmith
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 2740
                  • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                  • BT3100-1

                  #9
                  Congratulations on the new Craftsman saw.

                  I've looked at that, as well as the Ridgid. I guess I didn't realize there were any differences at all other than the paint scheme and the warranty and I guess I'm a bit surprised by the HP difference. Don't know why I should be though as in many cases "Craftsman" tools seem to offer a slight advantage in "power" with many of it's look-a-likes.

                  My late FIL spent his life as a "Hardware Manager" at Sears. Great guy and an award winning manager. I got a great appreciation of the "Craftsman" name and their tools.

                  I do wish they'd update their warranty though on power tools. A "one-year" warranty just seems to be so lagging in comparison to almost every other tool brand.

                  It's probably unfair, but I too lean toward longer warranty and support. I must admit though that it's more "mental" than anything else. Other than a sander, I don't recall ever seeking service on a power tool.

                  So far, I guess I'm just one of those "small hobby shop" guys, as my BT3100 has performed admirably . Maybe someday; then I'll have to look closer at the Craftsman which I'm sure you will get a lot of joy out of.

                  Congratulations again,

                  CWS
                  Think it Through Before You Do!

                  Comment

                  • jwd12
                    Established Member
                    • Jun 2005
                    • 106
                    • Dyer, In..
                    • BT3100

                    #10
                    Interesting thread Greenacres2, I have often wondered if not the BT route, then what? I have about 8 years with my BT3100 and have really learned to appreciate it. My BT has a woodworker II blade and a Leeway Shark guard. The saw is moved twice every time I use it and the rails are moved as required.

                    I have attended the Chicago School of Woodworking where rips are done on 12" Sawstops and cross cuts are done on Felder sliding tables. Fantastic equipment but unless I win the lottery there is no way, (and I have never played the lottery).

                    I really don't see any difference in the quality of a crosscuts including 8/4 hardwood. I have and use a Freud Rip blade but I don't do a lot of ripping. I think I may have ripped 38" 6/4 popular but certainly not longer nor thicker.

                    A big difference between the BT3100 and the exotic equipment is the setup time. At School you just adjust the fence or table to the desired dimension and cut. My methods on the BT involve adjustment, measurement, readjustment, trial cut and sometimes repeating. How much of this is caused by movement of the saw or rails is not known. Obviously not a production situation.

                    I am pleased with my BT3100 and everything still works well. I have no need for a different table saw but I still think about it.
                    I am praying for patience but extremely upset that it takes so long.

                    Comment

                    • greenacres2
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 633
                      • La Porte, IN
                      • Ryobi BT3000

                      #11
                      So far--Lost a big chunk of yesterday to other commitments, but between our 15 year old and a friend of ours, the flip went fine. I'd left the cabinet in the styrofoam packing to do the upside down assembly, so we simply rolled that (i did that by myself before they got there) and we flipped/rolled the last 90 degrees from there. Heavy, but on its legs.

                      Thankfully, the table was flat and smooth since i had a few hours of labor in before ever seeing it. From there, the rest of the assembly was straight forward and mostly uneventful. The front fence rail went on smooth and easy. The rear rail is a struggle in the casting portion--very tight quarters to the trunion and the legs to get a nut on a bolt and even tighter to get a wrench on 'em. Much time of 1/8 turn (or less!!) rotations--but eventually done.

                      One extension table had a slight upward bow in it, like the table side was not quite 90 degrees. Was able to lay it straight using the attachment of the fence rails, but at the end of the night loosened those (not certain the pressure might deform the rail extrusions, but didn't want to take that chance). Called this morning and new extension is being mailed today.

                      On the rails, i lined up the joint as suggested in the manual, but couldn't tell which edge they were lining to. I guessed wrong and needed to move the rails about 3/16" (back to the tight quarters!!) but uneventful. Blade was square out of the box, as was the bevel/bevel gauge. I really appreciate the riving knife/blade guard arrangement--really easy to work with.

                      Miter gauge is fine, but i've got a Kreg also--helps me appreciate that!! Rip fence--grrrr. The "base" (their term, i'd call it the head) seems tight when placing it on the rail. Had to loosen the parallel adjustments a lot to get it over the rail, but with that i was only able to get within about a 64th of parallel front to rear, and it leaves one side tight. The tech i spoke with this morning offered a few ideas and i agreed to give it a shot tonight before we move on to swapping fences and/or fence parts. Not bad--but i'd rather get it right.

                      So far, so good.

                      earl

                      Once completed, i grabbed one scrap 1x4 with a good edge, made a cross-cut, then ripped it.

                      Comment

                      • greenacres2
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 633
                        • La Porte, IN
                        • Ryobi BT3000

                        #12
                        Originally posted by jwd12
                        Interesting thread Greenacres2, I have often wondered if not the BT route, then what? I have about 8 years with my BT3100 and have really learned to appreciate it. My BT has a woodworker II blade and a Leeway Shark guard. The saw is moved twice every time I use it and the rails are moved as required.

                        I have attended the Chicago School of Woodworking where rips are done on 12" Sawstops and cross cuts are done on Felder sliding tables. Fantastic equipment but unless I win the lottery there is no way, (and I have never played the lottery).

                        I really don't see any difference in the quality of a crosscuts including 8/4 hardwood. I have and use a Freud Rip blade but I don't do a lot of ripping. I think I may have ripped 38" 6/4 popular but certainly not longer nor thicker.

                        A big difference between the BT3100 and the exotic equipment is the setup time. At School you just adjust the fence or table to the desired dimension and cut. My methods on the BT involve adjustment, measurement, readjustment, trial cut and sometimes repeating. How much of this is caused by movement of the saw or rails is not known. Obviously not a production situation.

                        I am pleased with my BT3100 and everything still works well. I have no need for a different table saw but I still think about it.
                        Not in the league you've mentioned, but i also did some consideration of a few pieces Steel City listed in their warehouse sale ad on Craigslist. (http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/3552968825.html) The 35950 was tempting, and the description was solid--but the logistics of getting it home would have been a nightmare. And what i did should be just fine.

                        earl

                        Comment

                        • toolguy1000
                          Veteran Member
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 1142
                          • westchester cnty, ny

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jwd12
                          .....I really don't see any difference in the quality of a crosscuts including 8/4 hardwood.......
                          interesting observation. and from someone who apparently has experience with both serious type WW equipment and definitely hobbyist (bt3100) equipment. gives your comments/observations more value than comments from WWs who stridently advocate for equipment like cabinet saws with which they apparently have no first hand experience.
                          there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

                          Comment

                          • tommyt654
                            Veteran Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 2334

                            #14
                            LOL,Now thats funny,lets see 3 yrs Woodshop in H.S ,All we had to work with were Delta Unisaws,Dad lugged around a Unisaw for 20+ yrs for his workshops and even now my R4511 is by definition a cabinet saw. I think that easily qualifys for 1st hands-on experience with cabinet saws. Crosscutting has very little demand on a saws strengths when cutting wood as it rarely exceeds lengths of more than a few inches,Get back to me on experience once you have some. I'm all for folks with small shops using the best equipment they can afford or find, In time all realize the need for larger better suited equipment once they foray into some woodworking that necessitates quality higher rated equipment, until then most all make due.But to sell off a Unisaw to stick to a smaller less utilitarian saw to me sounds either because it wasn't put together properly or simply haven't developed a need/skills for a better saw as of yet and may never develope the necessary skills needed to do larger more complex work. But why quibble the Unisaws built over time span decades of usage by far better workshops and owners than anything on the market today and for many more yrs to come for the uninformed

                            Comment

                            • greenacres2
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 633
                              • La Porte, IN
                              • Ryobi BT3000

                              #15
                              I've not had any real time on the new saw yet, but one of the trigger points for me was 12" of table in front of the blade, versus 6" or so. That looks like a football field for squaring rough cut lumber. Time will tell.

                              By the way--every hardware bag had exactly everything listed, no spares but no shortages either!!

                              earl

                              Comment

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