Moen versus Delta shower control

[JimD]

I am redoing a bathroom, the 4th I've put a shower or tub/shower control into. I had a bad experience with the Moen my wife picked because she liked it's appearance. I think the 3 previous times I've done this I used a Delta. This Moen decided to turn itself on Monday flooding the kitchen ceiling because I had cardboard in the shower base to protect it while I fixed up the drywall above the shower stall. It would not shut off until I put in a new cartridge. Moen sent it which was nice but I don't think it should have turned itself on. I had difficulty soldering it, not Moen's fault (bad piping layout and old flux and cleaning brush). So the cartridge was in and out 5 times. But if it fails this way after going in and out a few times how long will it last?

Anybody have a strong preference for Moen over Delta or vice versa? I've had Moen sink faucets but this is the first shower control and it might be the last.

[atgcpaul]

Still redoing my master bath. I installed this Delta shower control valve and it was simple enough to do. The brass body required a lot of heat for the solder to flow. I actually melted the metal tab on the bracket that attaches the valve to framing. I had to order another one. Anyway, what I like about this Delta valve is that it comes with a plug that allows you to test your water connections without having to install and possibly damage the valve body. This is my first Delta and I have not used any Moen products. Crossing my fingers, but the Delta stuff was well reviewed.

https://www.amazon.com/Delta-R10000-...SR5MCJATGWP36P

[LCHIEN]

I once had to use Delta's customer service and it was simply outstanding.
Sent me a lot of free out of warranty parts and gave excellent instructions on fixing the problem.
It was a few years ago.

[tfischer]

I've found that using MAPP gas instead of propane makes soldering pipe, especially valves, trivially easy compared to propane.

[atgcpaul]

It was only my 2nd time soldering pipe, but I was using MAPP. I think because the body is so beefy, it took quite a while for the solder to melt and get drawn into the joint. I'm thinking about replacing the shower valve in the guest bathroom with this Delta. This time I'm thinking to use the IPS connections instead of the soldered ones.

Jim, if you go the Delta route and want to solder, remove the metal bracket that screws onto the main body. I soldered the pipes in place because everything was being held in the right position. The bracket is some kind of pot metal with a pretty low melting temp.

[Condoman44]

I have repaired both Delta and Moen. I have a Moen I installed in our new bathroom and have not had any issues. The bath that came with the house I upgraded with a Symmons, which I like the best.

My pet peeve with all showers is the lack of stops to allow repair without shutting the whole house down. I just toured a new plumbing job (fire rebuild) and none of the showers have stops. If the control does not have them built in it is future grief.

[cwsmith]

Condoman44,

I haven't done plumbing myself since I was a kid, so I'm not familiar with the term "stops"... do you mean "shut-off valves"?

When I was a teen, I used to help my father do plumbing, he was in the business (a Master Steamfitter, for industrial/commercial certified work). He taught me to solder and even lead sectional sewer line. We always put shut-off valves at every plumbing position... bath, kitchen, laundry, etc. It just makes sense and in every house I've owned since, I've always made sure that shut-offs were installed.

On the issue of Delta vs, I really prefer Delta over almost anything. We have Price-Phister in our showers and they just have too many flimsy internal seals that seem to wear out all to fast.

CWS

[JimD]

I was using Mapp. My soldering problems were some combination of old flux, worn out cleaning brush, and bad piping layout by the previous owner. I solder short pieces of pipe into the valve body before putting it in the wall. Then I attach pipe to pipe with unions well away from the valve body. This time, the pipes were pretty close to the valve body and I didn't go back to the store to get right angle piece to get further away. I had pin hole leaks. After I got new flux and a new cleaning brush, I cleaned the joints well, fluxed them, and got it done. I've done this first time before so I think it was a bit of over confidence and possibly bad tools. But my torch was fine.

Painted the ceiling today and I am finishing up on patching the tile. My wife first wanted it replaced but then decided it is OK. It is little 1x1 squares so lots of grout. But it doesn't get used much. I saved full tiles when I demoed and only had to put in about 2 and 1/2 inches of tile (and a new threshold and a patch to the hardwood flooring outside the door). She wanted a wider door and that added significant scope - but it's done except for the casing (didn't have as much as I thought).

Thanks for your thoughts.

[jabe]

I prefer Delta products, the replacement parts are cheaper than Moen and Delta is easier to repair. Yes I would put shut off valves for any bath or shower install so you won't have to shut off the whole house water supply. I started to use CPVC but now I use PEX tubing for all my plumbing repairs or upgrades, so simple to use and much cheaper. I use Shark coupling for the transition from copper to PEX. Majority of all new construction in Hawaii uses PEX even high rises. Lots of instructions on you tube for PEX. Copper theft is a big problem here, I've heard of some new homes would be stripped of all the copper pipes before they have the chance to install the drywall. If they allow PEX in your part of the country, it should be something to look into.

[JimD]

I've seen PEX on "this old house" but I don't think I would use it. The current stuff may be good but there have been several previous versions that were not. I don't think copper will be an issue except possibly if your water is very acidic (which mine is but so far no issues). I have also used CPVC and it is much easier than copper. PEX cannot be much quicker or easier than CPVC.

My Moen shower control is in a bathroom that gets very little use but I've had no subsequent issues. I also found out that you can buy a new set of seals for Moen cartridges and it is much cheaper than a cartridge, I think it was less than $10. So I put one in a drawer in that bathroom in case there are any additional issues. If I put in any more Moen I will make sure I have a spare set of seals. Probably not a bad idea regardless of brand.

[atgcpaul]

PEX seems easier to use than CPVC if you have all the tools. My house is CPVC and it's been easy for me to use. However, I'm concerned about its lifespan. The piping is now 20 years old and when I use the parrot snips on it, it breaks/snaps rather than cuts cleanly like new CPVC.

I'm about to put in another Delta shower valve. It's going to get connected with a variety of fittings I bought at HD last night. Maybe it's my imagination but there seemed to be far fewer CPVC fittings than I remember. On the other hand, the number of Sharkbite fittings seemed to double.

Paul