How do you replace the bottom courses of siding?

[atgcpaul]

The bottom few courses of Masonite siding on my garage shop are deteriorating and need to be replaced. Since siding is installed bottom up, how do I replace the bottom courses? Removal shouldn't be a problem, but wondering more about installation. Do I install them from the top down starting underneath the last good course and face nail through two layers of siding? It's going to be replaced by Hardi plank.

Thanks
Paul

[woodturner]

The bottom few courses of Masonite siding on my garage shop are deteriorating and need to be replaced. Since siding is installed bottom up, how do I replace the bottom courses?
...
It's going to be replaced by Hardi plank.

What I do is replace them from the bottom up. Each course except the last one can be nailed normally. The last one that goes between the new work and the old work can be face nailed with Hardiplank - just nail it off near the edge of the strip above, countersink the heads, and caulk the nail heads to hide them.

More flexible siding materials can sometimes be lifted enough to get the nail heads under the course above, but hardiplank is way too rigid for that.

[dbhost]

Simply put, it's masonite, which if you go back with the same material, you are going to have the same problem again in the not too distant future.

If you have just one wall to work on, I would say spend the extra time and little bit of money and rip it all off and start over with Hardiplank / panel.

That is what I did with my garage when I had to redo mine about what, 4 years ago now? It still looks like the day I installed it.

[atgcpaul]

Simply put, it's masonite, which if you go back with the same material, you are going to have the same problem again in the not too distant future.

The new material will be Hardie plank. I don't have the exact dimensions on that side of the garage but I think it would cost $300 to re-side that whole wall, but there are 2 other walls to address and only the bottom 3 or 4 rows on each to replace. Everything above is sound. Not enough extra cash to do the whole thing and I don't really think it needs it. The Masonite hasn't swelled at the bottom edge, etc.

The problem on this back side is that it gets no sun and there are no gutters. I also have crap back there (which isn't touching the siding) but I think rain splashes against it and onto the siding and doesn't dry quickly.

I'll address the junk and I will sneak on the gutters during the repair--I'm supposed to get approval from our historic district commission first.

[Stytooner]

This is where a multi tool may shine for you. Cut off the lower coarse that you will replace. Use a circular saw or even a multi tool. Circular saw can regulate the depth of cut better.
Then where there are nails, slice them off so they are flush with the sheathing. You can face nail the new stuff or simply use construction adhesive. Tape with painters tape from above to hold in place till dry. This method will be the least intrusive to the existing coarses. When you start using pry bars and such, you do disturb them and could possible damage them as well.

[jking]

You don't mention what size of siding you have. If it is 12" masonite, it is going to be nailed near the bottom of the siding anyway. If it's narrower, it might all be blind nailed.

A few summers ago, I had to replace the bottom 2-3 siding boards on my garage. It was 70's era 12" masonite, I replaced it with new "masonite" (I don't remember the brand). My experience was that Hardiplank was around 30% more expensive than new "masonite". I removed all the old that needed to come off & started replacing from the bottom up. Since mine was 12", any nails that needed to come out could be accessed easily since it wasn't blind nailed.

I would start from the bottom up & when you get to the last one, I'd just face nail through both layers. You could address the exposed nail locations a couple of ways. You could try predrilling the hole and then caulking the hole before driving the nail. Or, you could paint over the top. You don't mention whether you're going to repaint. In my case, I was repainting the garage when I finished anyway. On Masonite siding, the main thing is to keep the paint in good condition, especially on the bottom edge.

[atgcpaul]

You don't mention what size of siding you have. If it is 12" masonite, it is going to be nailed near the bottom of the siding anyway. If it's narrower, it might all be blind nailed. I've got a recip saw and a multitool so between those two, I should be able to get the old siding down without having to use the pry bar too much.

You don't mention whether you're going to repaint. In my case, I was repainting the garage when I finished anyway. On Masonite siding, the main thing is to keep the paint in good condition, especially on the bottom edge.

I don't remember the exact width, but it's closer to 6" which is good for me because that's approximately the width of the Hardie at the Borg. They are blind nailed. There's also a piece of plastic integrated into the back side, bottom edge of the masonite that helps maintain a consistent reveal with the siding below it.

I'm not sure if the Hardie planks are just pre-primed or painted, too. Are the backs already primed? My existing siding is some shade of white. I already have white exterior paint that matches so I'll roll that on once the install is done so face nailing and caulking won't be a problem. I will work my way up as suggested here and then face nail through both planks where old meets new.

Looks like Hardie recommends you put a piece of flashing under butt joints. Do you also caulk that joint and push them tight or caulk over the joint?

What do you recommend to kick out the bottom course? I was going to rip down some PT wood to 1/4". I think they sell PT lattice in that thickness, too, I could use.

[woodturner]

I'm not sure if the Hardie planks are just pre-primed or painted, too.

It's available pre-painted or "primed". I bought the "primed" stuff and primed it with latex primer (do NOT use oil-base primer, it is not compatible with the product) and then two coats of latex paint.

Looks like Hardie recommends you put a piece of flashing under butt joints. Do you also caulk that joint and push them tight or caulk over the joint?

Put a piece of tar paper or aluminum flashing under the joint, caulk the end of the prior piece, then push the new piece against it and wipe off the excess caulk.

What do you recommend to kick out the bottom course?

I used PT lattice - cheap and effective. If you are going into masonry or otherwise using large diameter nails, predrill the lattice - it will split if not predrilled.

[jking]

Since it's blind nailed, Lee's advice on removal of the old would probably be the simplest.

Hardiplank can be bought painted, although the Borg might only have primed in stock. I don't know, but, would doubt the backs are primed. They weren't on the masonite I bought.

I don't think you would need flashing and caulk at the joint, but, the caulking would likely be better. The Hardiplank won't have the tendency to absorb moisture & swell like masonite would, though, so it's not as critical.

I ripped down a strip from the old siding to act as a spacer at the bottom. That was how the original installation was handled. Your method would work fine, too.

[Stytooner]

I find that true duct tape works great behind the joints. Easy to cut and it sticks to just about anything. I am referring to the actual aluminum tape found at most hardware stores. Stick it and forget it. It will allow you more time before you caulk.

[atgcpaul]

I've already got the tar paper/roofing felt and other than having the actual materials in hand, I'm ready to go! Now if Mother Nature would only cooperate! It's supposed to rain most of the weekend.

I'm actually more worried about what I'm going to find behind the siding. I'm really hoping the sheathing (OSB) is intact. And if not, I'm hoping it didn't get all the way to the stud bay and fiberglass insulation.

[jdon]

Re: caulking. Don't use latex caulk, at least with Hardiplank. I had to recaulk a lot of joints, and used OSI Quad, and recommend highly.

[woodturner]

Re: caulking. Don't use latex caulk, at least with Hardiplank.

What problems have you had with latex? I used paintable silicone and have not had any issues, and it has been up there about 10 years now.

[jdon]

I found that latex caulk in the butt joints was not very flexible. Where I live, in the Cascade foothills, in winter we routinely get a lot of rain , and wind (50+ mph), enough to cause the siding to vibrate. The caulked joints would crack and break away. So far (2 years) with the Quad caulk I've had no problems- it seems much more "rubbery" (flexible) and sticky; IIRC, I think it's butylene-based. Maybe silicone caulk would work as well, but for me, latex isn't the answer.

[jking]

I found that latex caulk in the butt joints was not very flexible. Where I live, in the Cascade foothills, in winter we routinely get a lot of rain , and wind (50+ mph), enough to cause the siding to vibrate. The caulked joints would crack and break away. So far (2 years) with the Quad caulk I've had no problems- it seems much more "rubbery" (flexible) and sticky; IIRC, I think it's butylene-based. Maybe silicone caulk would work as well, but for me, latex isn't the answer.

I have also had awful results with latex, even latex plus silicone. I have tried polyurethane and its worked ok, but, I prefer paintable 100% silicone if I can find it. Latex has always become hard and pulled away in a couple of years.