A bizarre plumbing puzzler

[Alex Franke]

Thanks for all the good ideas so far!

I'll ask about the vent. My FIL is over there and he opened up the wall from the closet side yesterday. He's going to take out the lower 2x4 today and see what's under it.

I'll keep you posted.

[LCHIEN]

assuming that the oven and water are related, because you have found this oven on, water appears relationship,

then Q: what is the source of water
plumbing leaks exacerbated by heat - already said no pipes in the wall.
combustion - already said its electric
Food moisture typically boils off when cooking - Test: Try opeprating the oven w/o food, e.g. empty

[Alex Franke]

Okay -- I got a little more information today, and it's beginning to make a bit more sense.

Apparently the water also starts to pool when the shower is turned on upstairs. They still insist that turning the oven on also causes the water to pool, but I wonder if it's as phi1l suggests -- that while they're cooking with the oven, they're also using water in the kitchen sink. And they probably just turned off the water to go check the meter.

So I now suspect a leak in plumbing under the slab, perhaps coming up through a little crack under the bottom 2x4 in the wall (which they haven't yet dismantled).

So far this is the only thing that makes sense to me... Well, this and the dog with the sense of humor.

[Uncle Cracker]

Food moisture typically boils off when cooking

...and becomes steam, which can (and does) condense on cool objects encountered by the steam as it emerges from the oven vent. I get a good 1-1/2 cups of condensate on top of my cooktop when doing a 4-hour roast with a water tray.

[Uncle Cracker]

Apparently the water also starts to pool when the shower is turned on upstairs.

And the worm turns...

[gsmittle]

And the worm turns...

There are worms in the water??

Simplest solution to my mind is don't bake anything. That's what takeout is for.

g.

[LarryG]

Apparently the water also starts to pool when the shower is turned on upstairs. They still insist that turning the oven on also causes the water to pool

In plan, what is the relationship of the upstairs shower to the oven?

If the shower drain or its p-trap is leaking, that could explain why the pool forms when the shower is used.

When the oven is on, heat rising from it could be causing a joint in the shower drain's p-trap to expand enough to leak out the water that is always present in a p-trap.

[JimD]

Larry is right but showers have other ways of leaking too if they are tiled. The joint between the wall and the pan is especially bad for leaking. Even one piece showers can leak where the drain goes out (there is typically a rubber seal that expands out as the drain piece is screwed together). The water supply side plumbing can leak but it is more likely initially than after working without apparent problem for awhile. But any sort of shower leak should be coming down inside the wall and showing up on the floor.

Coming up through the slab, if that is what is happening, seems unlikely for drains but supplys should leak continuously, not just when the shower is on.

[phi1l]

It is starting to sound to me like, before the slab was poured, There was some question about where drain lines would be required. So they just added one in that wall "just in case" , then forgot to cap it off before the drywall was put up. Now there is a down stream blockage in the drain line & water is backing up & over flowing a little during heavy usage.

[newbie2wood]

Kind of off the topic but if you have a leak from under the slab, check your insurance policy. It vary state to state but generally HO insurance will not cover the leaking pipe but it will cover the cost to get to it and repair the damage done to get to it as well as cover the damage done from the leak. You are on your own with the cost of the plumber. Best bet is to read your policy on exclusions. If it is not excluded, it's covered.
________
Zoloft lawsuits

[LCHIEN]

did you check for Lupus?

[Alex Franke]

Here's an update:

So far two plumbers have taken a look, and it's puzzling both of them. The general consensus is, though, that there's a leak under the slab that might be coming up through a hole from where the wall is nailed to the concrete, and that when the oven is on, it either heats up the wall enough to expand the 2x4's and allow some water in, or it's heating up the floor and allowing water underneath to expand.

The more experienced-sounding plumber is coming back today and wants to put valves on the lines he could find so he can isolate the problem, and if it can be pinned down, then try to re-route it entirely from the supply.

Here's another interesting question: The plumber suggested that it might be the neighbor's water supply that's running under their slab and causing the problem. If so, who pays?

[cabinetman]

In one of my previous homes I had a fixed glass picture window a few feet from a fireplace. The fireplace had a brick surround on the wall. After a heavy rain water would eventually pool between the fireplace and the window along the floor line.

The window didn't seem to leak, so the culprit had to be the fireplace, so I thought. I had several GC's that were my clients and asked for evaluations. Each had a different guess.

Some of the possibilities were that the water was getting past the flue and leaking through the brick. Another was hydropressure from the slab. This went on for several weeks. Finally, after a rain I waited it out with a flashlight.

The window was glazed with an aluminum channel with a rubber gasket. Water would drip down on the outside and leak behind the aluminum, and seep under the marble sill (which was about 4" above the floor), and leak on the floor. It was hardly visible.

If I had listened to any of them I would have had some expensive repairs. I cured it with some Polyseamseal caulk.
.

[phi1l]

My philosophy is to evaluate the cheaper possibility first. You gotta take look in that wall for a problem before you start tearing up the slab...

[cgallery]

Here's another interesting question: The plumber suggested that it might be the neighbor's water supply that's running under their slab and causing the problem. If so, who pays?

That's an easy one, neighbor pays. They either pay, or you install a shutoff valve for THEIR water in YOUR closet.