Electrical Wiring - Switch Hot Or Neutral?

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  • cabinetman
    Gone but not Forgotten RIP
    • Jun 2006
    • 15216
    • So. Florida
    • Delta

    #16
    Originally posted by krogers
    There was a wiring diagram in Family Handyman recently showing some simple electrical issues around the house. They showed switch the Neutral. I don't know the specific reason why. That is the way I have always seen it drawn.

    I've seen it advised that way too at times, but I've always switched the hot.
    .

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    • fbrend123
      Established Member
      • Aug 2006
      • 182
      • Michigan
      • Ryobi BT3000

      #17
      If you look at any outlet, there is a silver terminal and a bronze terminal. The black wire (hot) always goes to the bronze terminal, and the white wire (neutral) always connects to the silver. If you look at an SPST switch, both terminals are bronze. So, logically, the black (hot) wire goes to both terminals of the switch. If you run a length of conduit from a ceiling light, you connect both the black and white wire in series with the black (hot) wire that supplies power to the light, and the other ends (both black and white) to the terminals on the switch. I believe that when you do that, code requires that you paint the white wire going to the switch black on both ends, to indicate that both sides are hot. Some electricians don't bother to do that, hence lots of confusion when someone looks at the circuit. That's my two cents' worth as a layman, and I won't even try to get into mutiple swictch circuits.

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      • woodturner
        Veteran Member
        • Jun 2008
        • 2049
        • Western Pennsylvania
        • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

        #18
        Switch the hot - most of the time

        NEC does specify that the hot be switched rather than the neutral, almost all the time.

        The one exception is that in some configurations to wire three way switches, the white wire is used as the hot traveller. In this case, the white wire is switched - but to meet code, it must be taped or colored to be black, because it's really a hot, not a neutral.

        I suspect that is the situation for the magazine article another poster referenced, but can't really say without seeing the diagram. The diagram could simply be in error - and wiring diagrams published in magazines are often incorrect, in my experience.
        --------------------------------------------------
        Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

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        • os1kne
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2003
          • 901
          • Atlanta, GA
          • BT3100

          #19
          I don't know anything about the magazine with the article in question, but I do think that it's a good idea to get multiple reputable sources of information / post a question here or similar forums to get the insight of experienced/knowledgeable people before proceeding with something you're not sure about.

          Case in point: 2 or 3 years ago, I read an article in a WW magazine about using 12/3 romex to wire a typical home workshop with double gang outlet boxes. The idea was that each outlet box would have two 20A duplex receptacles, with each on a separate circuit. The article went on to say that an additional advantage of this is that you could replace the 120V outlets in a box for a 240V outlet basically anywhere for future tool needs (assuming only 1 240V tool would be used at a time). Seemed like a good idea.

          While buying supplies for another project a couple of years ago, I found 250' of 12/3 on clearance due to an open package or something. Other projects with higher priorities came up, and I haven't yet got around to wiring the garage. I was starting to plan wiring the garage and posted about it a week or so ago because I was concerned that 2 GFCI circuits with a shared neutral may cause a problem. Anyway, I came to learn that what I was about to do (2-120V circuits with a shared neutral) was against current NEC code. Now I'll be using 12/2 for my 120V shop wiring, and I'm pretty sure that I have a lifetime (for my uses) supply of 12/3. So, it's a good idea to remember that the advice from a magazine article may not be good advice. (They can always print a correction in the following month that most people will never see.) Good luck!
          Last edited by os1kne; 10-13-2009, 06:44 AM.
          Bill

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          • LCHIEN
            Super Moderator
            • Dec 2002
            • 22029
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #20
            don't believe blindly everything you see on the internet!
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

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            • cabinetman
              Gone but not Forgotten RIP
              • Jun 2006
              • 15216
              • So. Florida
              • Delta

              #21
              Originally posted by LCHIEN
              don't believe blindly everything you see on the internet!

              That's good advice. This was in a DIY magazine...anything wrong?
              .

              .

              Comment

              • woodturner
                Veteran Member
                • Jun 2008
                • 2049
                • Western Pennsylvania
                • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                #22
                Originally posted by os1kne
                Anyway, I came to learn that what I was about to do (2-120V circuits with a shared neutral) was against current NEC code.
                FWIW, current NEC discourages shared neutrals, but does not prohibit them.

                [EDIT]: A shared neutral circuit is essentially a 240V circuit and MUST be wired to a two-pole breaker at the panel. It is not "legal" to wire it to two separate single-pole breakers.

                I don't recommend the practice though.

                You can still upgrade to 240 V later, though, if you wire each receptacle back to the panel. If you use 12-3, it's easy - just cap the red wire with a wire nut on both ends, connect the black and white for the 120 V usage. When you want to convert to 240 V, change the receptacle and use the black and red wires. Then change the wiring at the breaker to use the black and red on a double pole breaker.
                Last edited by woodturner; 10-14-2009, 06:29 AM. Reason: Added important additional information and clarification
                --------------------------------------------------
                Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                Comment

                • BobSch
                  Veteran Member
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 4385
                  • Minneapolis, MN, USA.
                  • BT3100

                  #23
                  Originally posted by cabinetman
                  That's good advice. This was in a DIY magazine...anything wrong?
                  .

                  .
                  Where to start...
                  2-wire cord (Lamp cord?!) has no ground. Use 3-wire cable and connect the ground.
                  Text says to connect to each side of outlet but pic shows both conductors to the same side.

                  Any more?
                  Last edited by BobSch; 10-13-2009, 08:54 AM.
                  Bob

                  Bad decisions make good stories.

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                  • master53yoda
                    Established Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 456
                    • Spokane Washington
                    • bt 3000 2 of them and a shopsmith ( but not for the tablesaw part)

                    #24
                    i'm not bitting wood turner but i'm the one that said it is against code I'm out driving nails with my hammer
                    Art

                    If you don't want to know, Don't ask

                    If I could come back as anyone one in history, It would be the man I could have been and wasn't....

                    Comment

                    • Tom Slick
                      Veteran Member
                      • May 2005
                      • 2913
                      • Paso Robles, Calif, USA.
                      • sears BT3 clone

                      #25
                      Originally posted by cabinetman
                      That's good advice. This was in a DIY magazine...anything wrong?
                      .

                      .
                      I don't see anything right!
                      Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

                      Comment

                      • crokett
                        The Full Monte
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 10627
                        • Mebane, NC, USA.
                        • Ryobi BT3000

                        #26
                        Originally posted by BobSch
                        Where to start...
                        2-wire cord (Lamp cord?!) has no ground. Use 3-wire cable and connect the ground.
                        Text says to connect to each side of outlet but pic shows both conductors to the same side.

                        Any more?
                        It appears to be a metal box. The box should also be grounded.
                        David

                        The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

                        Comment

                        • woodturner
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 2049
                          • Western Pennsylvania
                          • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                          #27
                          Please see edits to prior post #22
                          Last edited by woodturner; 10-14-2009, 06:30 AM. Reason: clarification
                          --------------------------------------------------
                          Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                          Comment

                          • mjernigan
                            Forum Newbie
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 34
                            • .

                            #28
                            Jussi asked which tester I used...

                            I'm certain it's not the only one that might have kept me from losing my life as a result of loose standards, but its function DID spare me an early exit:

                            I use the Sperry HVH602, which I picked up either at HD or Lowes, can't remember which. Works great, gives a warbling tone when you place its plastic tip against a conductor or a conductor's insulation.

                            My only gripe is that it uses button cells rather than the more easily available AA or AAA, but given that at least once it saved my bacon, you won't hear me complaining loudly.

                            Mike

                            Comment

                            • crokett
                              The Full Monte
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 10627
                              • Mebane, NC, USA.
                              • Ryobi BT3000

                              #29
                              Fellas, it was a simple question, no need to quote code or anything. Oh and to make things even more confusing, I was out there late last night putting some tools away and I looked at it again. I think the way it was actually wired before I redid it was the white from the fixture came in to one switch pole. There was a white jumper from the other switch pole that was wired to black for the incoming hot. The black from the fixture was wired to the neutral.....
                              David

                              The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

                              Comment

                              • mjernigan
                                Forum Newbie
                                • Nov 2004
                                • 34
                                • .

                                #30
                                David--

                                True indeed, it was a simple question, but these things tend to grow when we get our hands on them. And regarding the color of the wiring: it's a convention, and while it certainly is good to wire according to convention, I don't think it's a safe assumption that someone actally did it the right way. I only avoided getting shocked because I stuck to my habit of always testing a circuit with the voltage sensor (and I test that each time, too).

                                I have pictures of my cut and bruised arm on my shop wall to remind me to keep the riving knife and anti-kickback pawls in place (and man! does kick-back happen in a hurry), because I didn't have a similar habit when I was cutting drawer bottoms a few weeks ago.

                                My caption: No shortcuts!

                                Maybe I'll learn.

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