anchoring porch posts?

[parnelli]

Two summers ago, I had posted about replacing the bottoms of my front porch posts.

More than a few things came up and the project got put off until now.

Here's the porch, minus the railings and spindles that were all rotted.


Here's what the bottom of the post looked like before:


I sawzalled out the rotted piece (which was finish nailed up into the post and spike nailed down into the concrete) and slid/hammered the new piece into place.

I replaced with an aluminum plinth from the BORG.



The treated plywood spacer is screwed/glued to the aluminum plinth and has a hole cut into the center to allow airflow.



Around the bottom of the post will be moulding at some point. Maybe PVC, or cedar or treated- don't know yet.

My concern is that originally, the wood bottoms were nailed/spiked into the cement to hold them steady. Right now, with the one that I have done, there is nothing holding it in place. And I have NO idea how I should go about doing so.... Brackets? Long tapcons?

Am I just looking to stop lateral movement- or do I need to be concerned about lift as well?

[crokett]

The porch posts on my 30yr old house sit on those same plinths on my concrete porch and are not anchored down as far as I can tell. The weight of the roof does a fine job holding them in place. At my old house I had to replace a rotted post similar to yours. That post wasn't anchored down either. It rotted because someone wrapped the base of the posts in pine about 12" tall and didn't caulk and/or kerf the back of the pine to give the water a place to go.

[cabinetman]

Use the plinth as a pattern laid out on the floor for two of the diagonally opposing holes. Install corrosion resistant dowels, or screws mounted to the floor to align into the plinth when set into place. IOW, the plinth drops down onto them.

The other two of the diagonally opposing holes are to be used to screw the plinth to the post. When driving those screws in caulk where the screw enters the wood.The posts should be fastened at both the top and bottom to restrain lateral movement. Most codes require that.
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[crokett]

Interesting. I actually went out and checked under the plinth on my porch and mine aren't fastened at the bottom.

[cabinetman]

Interesting. I actually went out and checked under the plinth on my porch and mine aren't fastened at the bottom.

It might be wise to fasten them.
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[parnelli]

Use the plinth as a pattern laid out on the floor for two of the diagonally opposing holes. Install corrosion resistant dowels, or screws mounted to the floor to align into the plinth when set into place. IOW, the plinth drops down onto them.

The other two of the diagonally opposing holes are to be used to screw the plinth to the post. When driving those screws in caulk where the screw enters the wood.The posts should be fastened at both the top and bottom to restrain lateral movement. Most codes require that.
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Yeah, but I'm not removing the posts. Or at least I really, really, really don't want to get to that point.

I'm just sliding the replacement plinth under the post while the post stays in place. So I can't drop the plinth down on anything. Kinda like Crokett to an extent. How could he retrofit anchors in his situation without starting from scratch??

So the only ideas I'd come up with are long tapcons drilled diagonally from say 6" up the post or so, or using something like these simpson strong-ties.


The catch is that the size of the shoe moulding would have to be big, and that they are made for wood-to-wood- so don't know if that would cause any issues.

If there's something more elegant- I'm completely missing it...

[cabinetman]

You could install a fairly thick base moulding around the post to the deck. It could have a decorative profile around the top edge, like a cove. Make it about 6" - 8" high. Toe screw (with countersunk Tapcons ) the base to the deck, and screw into the post. That will stop lateral movement, and help mitigate lift.
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[just started]

Lots of construction adhesive.

[crokett]

The problem with toe screws is you also have to drill through the metal plinth, or at least I do. Doable, but would require a couple different drill bits. My other thought was take the right angle bracket, cut down the bottom so it is only 3/4" or so wide, drill new holes in it and screw that to the post and to the porch. Then wrap everything with PVC trim that will never rot.

[cabinetman]

The problem with toe screws is you also have to drill through the metal plinth, or at least I do. Doable, but would require a couple different drill bits.

Oh, dread the thought of needing a couple of different drill bits. The base moulding could be a double up (stepped), which gives the thickness which affords the toe screw to have sufficient bracing, and nowhere near the metal plinth. Drilling a deep countersunk hole at a steep angle works very well.
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[unknown poster]

If you can find tapcons of the appropriate length with a head that will fit in a pocket hole, then a Kreg jig shoud solve this problem. Drill through the aluminum with a HSS bit, and then into the concrete using the pocket hole as a guide. Wrap the bottom of your post in a shoe molding to cover the pocket holes.

[crokett]

or I could use the metal brackets that are designed for the purpose. This is very much a you say potayto I say potahto argument. I'm not saying toe-screwing is the wrong way, I'm just suggesting alternatives. I'd also rather use the brackets because I can see what I am drilling as opposed to drilling blind, plus I would have to buy a longer concrete drill bit to toe-screw it.

edited to add -this was in response to Cabinetman's post, not unknown poster. Heck, I don't even know who he is.

[cabinetman]

Working around the existing conditions to solve a problem is not as easy as planning from the start and having an empty space to begin with. In that situation, brackets of some type are the best way.

This situation is an afterthought. Many home repairs are in this category. I've used an add on plinth moulding to do this type of repair on many occasions. Of course all wood parts on all surfaces should be sealed and painted, and any spaces should be caulked.

It's worthwhile to buy the correct tooling to do the job. On some Tapcon packaging, the bit is included. I wouldn't find alternative methods that were inferior just because I didn't want to go buy a drill bit.

This plinth example may be a little out of scale for my taste, but it shows how using a buildup can accomplish the task. In this setup, the drilling into the concrete doesn't have to be at a severe angle. The add-on moulding is both decorative and functional as a fastening technique.
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[crokett]

Working around the existing conditions to solve a problem is not as easy as planning from the start and having an empty space to begin with. In that situation, brackets of some type are the best way.

It's worthwhile to buy the correct tooling to do the job. On some Tapcon packaging, the bit is included. I wouldn't find alternative methods that were inferior just because I didn't want to go buy a drill bit.

Your first point is true. Planning from the start is always preferable. In this case though neither I nor the OP has that luxury. We are dealing with what is. I'm not sure what you mean about space. I have plenty of space to install the brackets if I wanted to. I also agree with the first sentence in your second point, but the last sentence presumes that brackets are an inferior fix to toe-screwing the post. I don't agree. The weight of the roof does a decent job holding the post in place. The brackets would work just fine to stop any lateral movement of the bottom of the post. As I said, you say potayto I say potahto.

Tapcons do have the bit included. That is how I got the bits I do have. But none of them is long enough to do this job.

[cabinetman]

Your first point is true. Planning from the start is always preferable. In this case though neither I nor the OP has that luxury. We are dealing with what is.

That's exactly what I was saying. Maybe I just confused you. In place repairs are a common predicament, which I pointed out.

I'm not sure what you mean about space. I have plenty of space to install the brackets if I wanted to.

The space I was referring to was any spaces created or remaining from adding the plinth trim moulding to weather proof the installation of those pieces.

I also agree with the first sentence in your second point, but the last sentence presumes that brackets are an inferior fix to toe-screwing the post. I don't agree. The weight of the roof does a decent job holding the post in place. The brackets would work just fine to stop any lateral movement of the bottom of the post. As I said, you say potayto I say potahto.

Adding surface mounted brackets to the application cited in the OP would interfere in adding base moulding to the smooth surface. With a thick addition of a base, the drilling angle wouldn't be as great.

Tapcons do have the bit included. That is how I got the bits I do have. But none of them is long enough to do this job.

As previously stated, the drilling angle may be less allowing the length of the bit you have to work. It may be worthwhile to get the correct length bit, as the dilemma may qualify for a post in the poll here about "The Right Tool For The Job".
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