laminate wood floor

[Greg in Maryland]

Next, Stairs. Avoid them. I'd even say it's worth the money to pay to install flooring on stairs - and I am a skinflint when it comes to money ! But definitely leave it to the last, as in 'next phase', maybe next year! I could give you a lot of comments on stairs, but maybe when you are done with the regular flooring.

Sorry in advance if I am hijacking this thread, but could you elaborate on this? At some point I would like to remove the carpet on my stairs, replace it with hardwood and then a carpet runner.

Greg

[Rand]

Definitely do the demo/cleanup first. I like to work from the top down so I would do the floor last.

The last time I did a laminate floor it required leaving a 1/4" space around the perimiter. They sold some plastic spacers for just that purpose. I couldn't bring myself to pay for them. Instead I bought some 2x1/4" poplar stock from the BORG and cut it into spacers. Saved a few bucks.

[wackii]

Greg, no worry... I want to learn as much as I can too.


Thanks Rand. I will rip the carpets first then paint the wall... then do the flooring. I bought the flooring kit which has some spacers, pull bar and a rubber tapping block from harbor freight for $7.50 (thought it's a good deal)... I got a pair of knee pads and safety glass... I'm kinda set to go... I think I'll need to cut some woods for spacers along the way... Now only if I can get my house's keys next week (**** escrow keeps on delaying it)... I need to finish all these by end of the month to move in. I hope I can pull it off. My Fiance will help paint the house.

Thanks all.

Al,

[radhak]

Sorry in advance if I am hijacking this thread, but could you elaborate on this? At some point I would like to remove the carpet on my stairs, replace it with hardwood and then a carpet runner.

Greg

Below is the list of challenges I faced when replacing carpet on stairs. I did it twice - once with laminates, then with engineered wood. Both for friends. None of these are insurmountable, but you are better off preparing for them.

1. Stairs are rarely uniform.

a. The width of each stair (ie, the length of the laminate you'd need) could vary from it's neighbors, sometimes by as much as 1/2"! Sometimes the riser would need a slightly different length than the step!
b. same for the height of the riser : not only does each riser vary, there's (almost) invariably a taper from one end to the other of any given riser. You need to measure each time, veryverycarefully.
c. the depth of any step (front to back) is similarly wont to be whimsical. Rarely is the step square, straight, or parallel!

2. Measurement is tough.

You have to measure the width, the height, and all the differentials (left side height, right side height; length of the step at the front, then again at the back of the step), etc, without being able to use a tape-measure easily - both ends are boxed in, so you need great patience, or buy one of the nice gizmos (might be worth it).

3. Need for precision.

Why do the above points become so important? Because unlike regular flooring areas, stairs don't allow for too much of leeway. Unless you plan to cover all around with quarter-round moldings, you need to be patient and be ready to do-over if a piece doesn't quite fit.

4. Shape of your stairs. This you'd know only after you rip out the carpet.

The biggest @#$%@! pain is any 'nose' built into the bare stairs. Some pros advise you to cut it out; believe me, that's easier said than done, particularly if you have a large number of steps. But if you don't, you have to work around it while placing your treads/risers. And that will tax your creative-thinking quite a bit !
If your stairs have a curve or a turn, you better work out your strategy before hand. Pay attention to all the landings.

5. Material used.

My opinion is that laminates are a real pain for stairs, in terms of the work involved; engineered wood is better, and maybe hardwood might be best : because, you don't worry about getting a nice clean cut on the TS, and you could delicately fine tune a cut with a hand-plane, etc.

The other important aspect is that you need to have your transitions and moldings ready; first buy the 'nose' moldings that fits your flooring material (color and thickness are good parameters), preferrably from the same vendor. My friend did not, and we had to scramble with local HD/Lowes. We ended up using material that did not really suit it.

6. Blades used.

Make sure your blade is sharp, and a higher teeth count might help with laminates' cross cuts

As I said, challenges that I faced. I am sure others on this forum might not be as hassled by these, or would be able to conquer them much better.

In other words, YMMV !

But I hope that helps.

[Shep]

I put down about 400sq feet of laminate floors in my entryway, hallway and kitchen. Easy product to use, but I've got a few suggestions.

First, If you can cut the material outside, do it. It's made out of MDF-type material that gets really dusty really quickly. I cut this in my basement with a miter saw for the cross cuts, a table saw for the rip cuts, and a jig saw for the corner cuts. My kitchen has a lot of corners so I used the jig saw the most. If your area is pretty square, it will be easy. It took me two days and a lot of trips to my basment workshop to make the cuts. My basement was filled witht the fine dust-like material.

Second, make sure you stager your pattern. Usually the patern is the same on every piece of board. I staggerd the pattern by 1/3 of the board. This gave the floor a natural look and made it hard to see the seam.

Third, keep in mind that once you cut a board in half you lose the locking capablility where you made a cut. This will cause you to think ahead a little to plan out your cuts to limit waste.

Last, plan for about 10% waste. It's hard to reuse small ends due to the locking capability being lost like I mentioned.

Hope this helps

[wackii]

I'm back With all the moving and painting, I have time to finish one room with the laminate woods. I have a question though. For the transition piece between the tile floor of my bathroom and the laminate woods, how much gap should I leave in between?

Thanks all. I did not have a chance to take any pictures yet.

Al,

[Shep]

The gap will usually depend on your filler piece. When I installed our floor the transition piece was roughly 1 1/2" wide. Since the transition piece was meant to conceal the gap, the gap was actually only about 3/4" to 1". I suppose that this is the gap you're referring to. If it is, their is probably a small track to be screwed down that will accept your filler piece. If the packaging doesn't explain how far away to set the track, you will have to measure the underside of the filler strip, and calculate that distance. Remember to take around 1/4" off the measurement to insure that the top of the filler piece will totally conceal your gap.

Hope this helps.

[wackii]

Thanks Justin, sorry I dont have access to the internet till today. Well, I did not have much time to do anything since I last posted. I'll see if I can get something going later today. There are so many things I have to do on the new house so all my schedules are backed up. My estimated completed time is off and it looks like I'm doing everything in the house. Dont believe what your Fiance said... you're ended up doing everything hehehe She started to paint one door and got tired hahahaha... So it looks like I'm doing the painting on the house too Anyway, I just took 2 pictures at night time of the completed room.

Thanks all for the help. I might have more questions later down the road

Al,

[Shep]

Looks great!

Good luck with the LOYL. I'm always stuck doing more than I bargan for. My problems are usually attributed to phantom "headaches" and a mysterious illness that makes my wifes feet get sore.

Go figure.

[wackii]

Stairs questions...

I've completed the whole second floor a few weeks ago, but I did not have much time for an update up here. Anyway, I'm going to need you guys help on the stair. I'm going to stay with the same laminate for the stairs. There are 14 steps and they are all straight no curve or anything like that. My stairs have about 1 inch sticking out on the steps. They are not perfectly square. The question is should I cut that off and make the stairs all square up? Also, on the laminate wood stairs do I use glue to glue down all the woods? Do I glue down the riser pieces too or nail the risers is acceptable?

Sorry, I have no pictures at the moment.

Thanks all.

Al,

[crokett]

You are covering both the treads and risers on the stairs with laminate? I think I would just leave the existing treads if they aren't in terrible shape. Can you take a picture of the stairs? My recommendation will change depending on what they look like. I would not cut off the overhang on the treads. If you do, your tread will not be wide enough. Squaring them up in place will be tough without removing them anyway. I would just cut the laminate to fit. Post a picture of the stairs and we can help a little better.

[Mr__Bill]

I have to agree with David, if you cut the nose off of the tread they will be hard to walk on and most likely no longer meet code.

If the staircase was built such that you can pry the tread off without destroying the whole thing, then you can replace the treads. Rather than covering them with laminate I would stain and finish some hardwood to look like the laminate and use that as the replacement tread. You really do want that 1" overhang and a rounded nose on the tread, both for looks and walkability.

If replacing is not an option and you have to cover them, then you will have to cut the nose off and replace it with a hardwood piece that is rounded over (bullnose not half-round) and coves the leading edge of the laminate. It is tempting to nail this on but your better off with screws and wood plugs then finish in place.

Yes, glue both the tread cover and riser cover on. Nails in the laminate will make it look tacky.

[pelligrini]

You probably still need the nosing in order to meet code. I don't know what covers your jurisdiction but there is an exception in the 2003 IRC (International Residential Code) that doesn't require a nosing if the tread depth is at least 11 inches. I'll quote the section below.

If you loose the nosing and do the laminate you'll still need to figure out how to finish the corner where the riser and tread meet. We did a 3" wide hardwood bullnose piece in a recent condo project where we finished the stairs with the same maple flooring material that we did in the units. You might be able to get some prefinished nosing strips that match your new laminate from your flooring distributor.

R311.5.3.3 Profile. The radius of curvature at the leading
edge of the tread shall be no greater than 9/16 inch (14.3
mm).A nosing not less than 3/4 inch (19 mm)but not more
than 11/4 inch (32 mm) shall be provided on stairways
with solid risers. The greatest nosing projection shall not
exceed the smallest nosing projection by more than 3/8
inch (9.5mm) between two stories, including the nosing at
the level of floors and landings. Beveling of nosing shall
not exceed 1/2 inch (12.7 mm). Risers shall be vertical or
sloped from the underside of the leading edge of the tread
above at an angle not more than 30 (0.51 rad) degrees from
the vertical. Open risers are permitted, provided that the
opening between treads does not permit the passage of a
4-inch diameter (102 mm) sphere.
Exceptions:
1. A nosing is not required where the tread depth is
a minimum of 11 inches (279 mm).
2. The opening between adjacent treads is not limit-
ed on stairs with a total rise of 30 inches (762
mm) or less.

[wackii]

Thanks guys. The steps are about 7.5" in height, 11.5" width with the nose). There are 14 steps straight up. Right now, I still have the carpet covering them.

Here are the pictures. I've also included two pictures of my completed floor (lil messy... I still haven't unpack all my boxes from moving ).


Thanks.

Al,

[cgallery]

I agree w/ Cabinetman, I'd leave the steps carpeting. 2nd to bathrooms, most of the accidents that occur in a house are on stairs. Stocking feet and laminate stairs is a recipe for disaster.