How do I fix this?

[Alex Franke]

I have three brick steps that lead up to a small, uncovered brick patio (is that the right word?) that sits outside the front door of my house. Over time, the brick steps have come loose from the patio and have dropped down a couple of inches where the steps meet the patio, so that the gap between the steps and the front of the patio is closed at the top, and maybe about a half inch or so open at the bottom.

There are railings on either side of the steps that go from posts that sit atop the patio to posts that are anchored to the bottom of the steps. So as the steps have shifted, the bottom posts have moved, the rails have separated from the bottom posts, and the tops of the lower posts have pivoted inward toward the patio, pushing back the railings on the patio itself.

I took off the railings in order to trim them so they would fit, but then I stopped, thinking it's not going to solve the real problem -- and I'd probably have to just do it all again after the ground below the steps has a few wet/dry cycles.

Any ideas?

...now that I think of it, I can try to take a picture with my phone. (The wife has the camera out of town )

[Uncle Cracker]

I had a similar problem to solve at my mother's place a few years back. I dug out a 12" deep trench under the back of the steps and the front of the porch, then jacked up the steps, pushed them flush to the porch with my truck, and poured a footer in the trench to keep them there. Steps that bulky should have a footer to start with...

[atgcpaul]

Not that I have ever done it myself but I have seen something called
"mudjacking" used to raise cracked sidewalks. A crew comes in, drills holes in
your concrete and then injects concrete under high pressure to raise the slab.
Definitely not DIY but maybe it would work in your situation.

Paul

[LCHIEN]

you can destroy and remove the brick steps, they seem to be a piece unto temselves anyway.
Then put in some concrete footers and build a nice wooden deck-type set of steps and railings. Anyway, for someone used to working in wood and not in bricks, that's what I'd do.

Can't see the rest of the house and patio to see if that would fit appearance-wise, though...

[Alex Franke]

Actually it looks like maybe it was built on top of the sidewalk... photos below.

you can destroy and remove the brick steps, they seem to be a piece unto temselves anyway.
Then put in some concrete footers and build a nice wooden deck-type set of steps and railings.

We're actually giving some thought to the idea of ripping the whole thing out and building a bigger covered porch. It always seems to work out that way with me -- start off fixing a railing, end up building a 150 sq ft addition. :lol: (sigh!)

I did a little digging. Here are some new photos. I tried using a post as a big lever (last shot), but it wouldn't budge.

[crokett]

Alex, I think the easiest way to fix it is a teardown and rebuild, unless you wanted to rent some equipment to move the steps out of the way. Either the footer under them has failed or there is no footer. The permanent fix is to repair/replace the footer. A skid steer could be used to move the steps so you can repair the footing, then put the steps back, else you could demo them and replace with wood steps as was suggested.

For appearance sake I would make every effort to keep the steps or rebuild if you have to demo them. They could be moved without heavy equipment -using jacks and rollers and such but that would take a while.

[messmaker]

I would probably try a deeper trench and a couple of hydralic jacks. They can be pretty impressive. I would then pour some concrete under them to hold them in place.

[Alex Franke]

So would I put the hydraulic jacks on top of something in the hole?

[Daryl]

You would likely need some cribbing or a steel plate in the hole to distribute the weight. You can also try a couple farmers jacks on each side, have two guys jacking evenly on each side. I don't know how your steps are constructed, but they may fall apart if you try jacking them.

[catta12]

you can destroy and remove the brick steps, they seem to be a piece unto temselves anyway.
Then put in some concrete footers and build a nice wooden deck-type set of steps and railings. Anyway, for someone used to working in wood and not in bricks, that's what I'd do.

Can't see the rest of the house and patio to see if that would fit appearance-wise, though...

This is what I would do as well. It looks like this way would give you the best end product.

[Black wallnut]

Dig holes on each side and use a high lift jack to lift. Then pour a footer to bring it level. Yup, you'd need to place blocking below the jack.

[cgallery]

When my next-door neighbor had a new driveway installed, it wasn't going to be even with her existing walkway to her front door. The concrete guy used a giant (like 6') pry bar to lift the walkway tile (which was lower), and then used a Tee to tamp material underneath the lifted tile.

He told her that if it sunk that she'd have to get it jacked. But it has been a couple of years, hasn't sunk, hasn't cracked.

I wonder if you could do something similar with those steps. Certainly it would approach the weight limit of what can be lifted with a pry bar. But maybe doable. If the alternative is knocking it down, it may be worth a shot.

[ironhat]

All the manual digging and jacking will work and is great for the "more-time-than-money conundrum where many of us find ourselves these days. But, as Paul suggested, concrete pumping will have the job done quickly and it should remain stable for a loooong time. You also won't have that 'added on' look because noting in sight will have changed. The company operating around here has been very busy and in this economy you just might be able to dicker the price. Good luck with the project!

[Tom Slick]

If you are looking for a nudge to get rid of them then I'll point out that they are not code compliant from a safety standpoint. The rise between the 3rd tread and the top is at least 1-2" greater than the rise between the lower steps. Does anyone trip a bit as they walk up them? It may be from sagging and jacking them up could solve that issue. The treads should be pitched so water runs off of them, the opposite of the situation you have now.

[Alex Franke]

Well I picked up a couple of 2 ton jacks at Harbor Freight for the alarming price of $8 each. I can't imagine it weighs more than 8,000 lbs.

With rain coming, I didn't have time to try them out, so I went ahead and filled the holes, trimmed the railings to fit, and reinstalled them so at least my wife can see some progress when she returns home in a couple of days. We'll see how they hold up in the coming weeks as the ground shifts around.

I think next time the railings separate from the posts, I'll bring out the jacks and try a proper fix.

A couple of questions, though, because I've never done this kind of repair before. The fulcrum is out in the sidewalk, so if I'm able to jack it up, it'll pivot away from the wall. I can't get a car up there like Uncle Cracker did, so how would I move it to the wall?

Also, at $8 a pop, I could probably just bury the jacks in the concrete, but that still seems wasteful. Do you think I could prop it up with bricks to rescue the jacks?

The rise between the 3rd tread and the top is at least 1-2" greater than the rise between the lower steps.

Yes, good eye! No trips yet. We didn't even notice it until the kids were just old enough to climb the first three steps but not the last!