DIY - Does It Pay?

[cabinetman]

The last two homes we bought were something of "fixer uppers". Our present home was one of at least 50 walk thrus we did with our realtor. To say he was at ends with us minimizes his attitude. Anyway, when we drove up to this home, we didn't even want a walk thru, but I said that as long as we were here, lets do it.

It was a beautiful piece of property, lending the back yard to our dog, which I must say carried as much weight in making a decision as how many bathrooms there were. The place needed a lot of work, but the price was right.

Now, after 9 years here, and having done everything from tile work, changing out all the windows, to replacing ceilings, crown moulding, new kitchen, all new appliances, new roof and much more, we are wondering whether all the work done by ourselves was worth the effort and money.

Granted, we've converted this home to a residence of our own taste. But considering the present value, and in looking back at the possibility of finding a home that needed nothing, we aren't sure that we will make out like "bandits" if we ever sell. We knew from the start that an older home will require money and sweat.

So, my question is this. What would your guidelines be as for what you were prepared to do yourself (or farm out) for what the costs might be, compared to the costs of a home needing nothing?
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[Garasaki]

Well, on a smaller scale (not looking so much at resale value), I try to do most work myself. I basically value my time at 25 bucks an hour, so if its cheaper for me to hire someone to do the job rather then spend my time learning a skill then applying it, I try to hire it out.

I personally feel I get better craftsmenship doing it myself because I am emotionally invested in a project. It's not just another job to me.

I also tend to favor DIY solutions rather then storebought because I get exactly what I want, exactly the size I want, no more, no less, etc.

Having been thru several large DIY home improvement projects, I would say that I generally pay the same as someone who hired it out, but I end up with a much better produce.

Example, I am in the throws of a basement finishing project. My wife's best friend just hired their homebuilder to finish their basement. The cost was comparable. My project is taking approximately 9 months, theirs 30 days. But their project is done to "builders" level of finish. The canlights for instance, are the cheapest they could buy, with the cheapest trims, and the cheapest bulbs.

Now don't get me wrong. Their basement looks nice. Those canlights put off light. The average person, in fact I'd say 95% of people, wouldn't look at them and have any problem with them. And I'm sure when it comes to resale, people aren't going to pay much more for my premium quality canlights with halogen bulbs etc, if they would be willing to pay any more at all.

However, in the time between now and resale, I'm going to sit there and stare at these lights for hours on end - and I'm going to have the satisfaction of looking at a decent quality light that I know was installed the way I wanted it, and installed right. To me, that's worth it. (my wife might argue otherwise)

[gsmittle]

Some jobs I WILL NOT do myself. I've done just enough tile, roofing, carpeting, and plumbing to know that I'd rather pay somebody else to do the large jobs. Smaller jobs (replacing a sink, etc.) I'll happily do myself.

I'd also rather do big structural jobs (finishing the basement, etc.) myself. St. Louis Count won't let me do my own electrical but I'm willing to do just about anything else. Except plumbing. And roofing. And carpet. And tile.

g.

[MikeMcCoy]

My last two homes were fixer uppers and I netted a little over 25% on both but that was not in todays market climate. My present house is new construction since I didn't feel like repeating the last 6 years of constant renovation.

[jussi]

I think it would depend on where you lived, since price of labor will vary, and how big the job is. Smaller things I do on my own, tiling, painting, etc. Larger things I'd hire out.

[Rand]

I've done several major renovations by myself and made money on all of them when it was time to sell the house. The only thing I have ever hired out was putting gas lines in the kitchen. Now that I've seen it done I think I could tackle it myself.

I wouldn't use today's real estate values as a yardstick. Home prices got whacked pretty hard but I bet they will be back up within a couple years.

The important thing is that a big project is a good reason to get more tools!

[Uncle Cracker]

For me, DIY decisions are about two things...

First is time/money. I'd rather postpone or hire out a job if I haven't the time and money to do it, but sometimes an excess of time or a shortness of cash will get me off the couch. If it stands in the way of my business obligations, it's no DIY, so the hire it/postpone it decision evolves.

Second is whether I think I can do a better job than somebody I hire. I have found the hard way that many "pros" aren't. If I'm just gonna fight with some idiot while he screws up a job, then it's DIY time.

Confused now?? Good... So am I...

[Tom Slick]

I guess you'd need to look at the value of a "non-fixer-upper" (NFU)house at the same time that you purchased a "fixer-upper" (FU), then look at the value and saleability of those two houses some time later (10 years). That NFU may now look dated and have become a FU.

On the other hand, certain properties are only going to be worth a certain amount no matter how many improvements due to neighborhood etc.

as for myself, I enjoy the projects so it doesn't matter if it contributes value measured in profit.

[twistsol]

I'm a desk jockey so coming home and doing "real work" is relaxing to me so I don't count my time as a cost. It is pure recreation. Add to that that my budget for materials coincides better with my pace of work. It takes much longer working a couple of hours a night and a day every other weekend or so, so it is easier to keep up with the materials cost.

I do almost everything myself. I work at a set pace and I'm not sure when other obligations are going to change the schedule. That makes it nearly impossible to hire out parts of the job since I can't tell them when they might be needed and won't break my back to meet someone else's schedule. On top of that, my projects are usually small in scope, a bedroom or bathroom at a time, and getting someone out to do little jobs like these is nearly impossible.

On the most recent project which was fairly large, three bedrooms, closets, bath hall etc around 980 Sq ft, I did have the insulation sprayed in at about 1/3 the cost of the DIY kits and had the drywall and taping done. The insulation guys did a great job, and cleaned up everything when they were done. The drywall guys, not so much. We're working on the basement now, I called the insulation guys back and they did a great job. I did the drywall myself and taped one room and it looks much better than what the pros did upstairs.

[Ed62]

I really enjoy the construction part of it. When we bought our house, it was a fixer upper too. It's a cape cod, and the upper level had rooms roughed in, but the rest was finished by me. I also built a 16 X 28 family room addition (with grunt help). That's where we spend 90% of our time now. I consider it worth it because I had the option to build it exactly the way I wanted. I didn't do the electrical work (my son's a licensed electrician) or the heating.

Ed

[gjat]

I do everything myself. 1, because of money. 2, because I like doing it. and 3, I haven't had to do anything major.

If you've enjoyed doing it and you got what you want, then what's the down side? If you over-built for the neighborhood or the market, that has nothing to do with DIY. If you had paid more and got everything already built, you'd be in the hole with today's values, wouldn't have the personal satisfaction, and might not have all the mods to your personal tastes like you do now.

[eccentrictinkerer]

We've lived in our home for 35 years and have tackled just about everything that can be done to a 90 year old house (just finished a kitchen re-do, second time in 25 years).

We paid $24,900 and are now being taxed on a house worth $360,000. So even if the value goes down a bit, it won't matter. We decided, soon after we moved in, that any changes we were to make to the house would be to make it nicer for us.

We have never had to think about re-sale value (I told LOML that the only way I'm leaving this house is on a gurney).

If we were younger re-sale probably would enter into the discussion. But, I tell whoever asks hat they should make the house into a place for themselves.

[JimD]

Our current home is our fourth. We had it built but I finished the guest bathroom upstairs and the basement including my shop/garage. The basement is about 900 square feet of living space and about 400 square feet of shop/garage. It is worth $60-85K more than we paid for it 9 years ago. If we were not near the top of our development, we would probably get more.

The average person will pay too much, IMHO, for a house that looks OK but isn't really. To save a lot on an existing home, I think it has to have clearly visible problems that you can fix. If it looks OK but needs work really, it will probably not be a great deal and payback for your work will not be great. But if it is what you want.....

Jim

[Ed62]

I tell whoever asks hat they should make the house into a place for themselves.

I agree. We talked about putting an addition for 6 or 8 years. One day I said we're gonna do it for us. Don't even think about making a profit on it. It's all about comfort and convenience.

Ed

[chopnhack]

C-man, so many have already put up worthy criteria, the only thing i can add to it is.....the wife factor.
That is how much nagging and whining can you handle until its done? or How long can she hold out for before melting down during a renovation? I believe those are the two factors you might want to add in for consideration. Me, eh..i am unusual and can be content sleeping in a cardboard box, which is exactly where I was told i'd end up if i didnt hurry up one day!