How to light a room

[dlminehart]

I'm remodeling my family room, mainly used for watching TV with minimal if any lighting. Originally, it had no overhead lighting, just a switched outlet near the hall door. I'm extending the existing receptacle circuit, and want to install recessed lighting on a new circuit.

The room is 14x14, with a hall door on one side, a fireplace in mid wall opposite the door, and an 8' sliding glass door to the north-facing deck on the left wall. No other windows. I'll keep the table lamps by couch and chair for occasional task lighting (reading, homework), relying on two switched groups of recessed lights for other lighting. One group of 6 would be for general lighting when needed (vacuuming, getting books from bookcase) and a trio of recessed lights with eyeballs aimed at the fireplace and walls to its sides would illuminate art and bookshelves.

Attached is my plan for the recessed lighting (positioning of lights is approximate).

My question: would 4" fixtures (using 40W or 60W) be adequate for my purposes? I want to be able to dim the lights, so fluorescents are out. With 6 fixtures at 60W, I' could have 360W aiming down; I'd put 40W or 60W in each of the 3 aiming at the wall. So, from 480W to 540W of light in a 14x14 room. Sounds adequate?

Since these will probably be quartz halide lamps, one needs to run them at least some of the time at full power to keep them from darkening, which is why I thought going to 6" fixtures might be overkill. Sure, 6" can take 75W lamps, but I'd almost never want the full 675W.

But, maybe I could use 4 6" down cans instead of 6 4" ones? And 2 6" eyeballs overlapping in the center over the fireplace, instead of 3 4" ones? (See copy of this thread with added graphic; the thread editor doesn't seem to allow adding images.)

Anyone have recessed lighting experience?

[pelligrini]

I've got two 6" cans with an eyeball trim kit over my stone fireplace. I use some halogen Par flood lamps. The coverage could be better. I think the thing is about 9-10' wide. I would rather have 3 with one centered.

Deciding between the 4" or 6" down cans really depends on the ceiling height, and how even a coverage you want. There are some companies that make a wider angle lamp, but those can be hard to find and more expensive.

[cabinetman]

I would go with 6 4" and 3 eyeballs. You could use lower wattage, and get better dispersion of light. The room may look larger with more versus less fixtures. Operating with a dimmer, should give pleasant results.

You might check out this PDF from The IES Lighting Hanbdbook.
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[430752]

think differently

I'm no expert, so take my observation with a large grain of salt. But, I think you're going about it the wrong way.

You're lighting it as if it were a gym, or a warehouse, or something. I mean evenly spaced down lighting on a grid pattern works for providing broad lighting, but it does nothing for the room other than light it.

I dunno what kind of room you have, meaning high ceiling, low ceiling, vaulted, etc. or whether you have any cool features or changes in depth and texture, but in the past for my tv room I stuck a giant cieling fan in the middle with four lights for when I wanted to illuminate the place and used a total of 8 cans of recessed lighting for highlights and drama. See, the human brain wants to see a central lighting fixture, gives weight to the center and defines the center. The recessed lighting is used more for spot utility or drama. Once you enter the room and get oriented, you turn off the center light and rely on recessed lighting. Don't hesitate to make two or three switched chains of recessed lighting, perhaps one set for the fireplace, one set for above/near the seating, and one set for perimeter or etc. This way, if watching tv, you can off the fireplace, and keep the seating area dimly lit. or etc.

In my case, it was a walk up attic, so I used 2 cans at the permiter of the winding stair case to wash the walls and provide boundry for the stairs, used 2 cans above the couch to provide dim, soft light for when wathing movies, used another 2 in a dormer side to illuminate more fully as it was dark, but aimed at the corners, and for the tv I put 2 cans in behind the tv so that one I could see the cd/dvd shelves behind the tv and second so that I could provide depth behind the tv. (Ever try to watch a tv in a dark room which wasn't against the wall? your eyes get tired trying to figure out where the tv ends and the wall behind it begins.)

On the utility part, you might put 2 down cans at the sliding door. For drama, you've got the right idea on the fireplace with eyeballs. But elsewhere, I'd use my lighting say above the couch, or to illuminate a dark corner, or etc. It depends on how your room is laid out and for what purpose. I also think nowadays they have dimmable flourescent lighting. Never tried, but saw once recently and put on my mental list of things to check out.

Best advice is to go higher priced stores and check out how they light. Magnolia within bestbuy might be a good place to start, any better furniture store (e.g., ethan allen) should have lighting to reflect mood, not just inventory.

All I can say is that if you think lighting is to illuminate a room, you gotta think differently.

[dlminehart]

Thanks for the comments. My room is 14x14, 8' ceiling. No cool features, changes in depth or texture. Just a square with entry door, fireplace centered opposite it, and a sliding door taking up a bit more than half of one wall. We'd had the TV in the corner between slider and fireplace, with couch against opposite wall. Worked OK, except that (1) TV cabinet overlapped slider by a couple feet and made it awkward to open and close drapes in front of slider, and (2) couch's recliner seats got in way of entry, plus couch tended to look messy from hall due to pillows, recliner, homework, etc.

Plan after remodel is to put couch in front of slider, TV in entertainment center against long wall near hall entry door. Entertainment center is shallower than couch, particularly couch with recliner extended, so the entry to the room should be more spacious and elegant. But, who knows, we may want to change back at some point. So I'm wiring both locations for power, cable TV, speakers, Ethernet.

I suppose I could put in 2 separately switched banks of 2 downward directed recessed lights where the couch and entertainment center will go (on those opposite sides of the room), as well as a bank of 3 with eyeballs pointing at the fireplace and adjoining walls. Then, a single non-recessed overhead fixture in the center of the room for general lighting. In other words, in my plan above, the right-center fixture would disappear, and the center-center one would not be recessed.

I'd be going from 2 switched banks of lights to 4 of them. Quite a number of dimmer switches!

[dlminehart]

If I had the 2 top right recessed cans on a separate switch, what do you think of the idea of having that switch on the right side of the door with the 3 switches for central overhead, fireplace eyeballs, and sliding door recessed cans to the left side of the door. My hall entryway goes all the way to the ceiling, and it would be easier to tap power from an outlet to the right of the entry than to run cabling from a switch on the left of the entry into the ceiling and down on the right side. Not something I can remember seeing done, though, putting switches on both sides of an entry.

[just started]

Think about using track instead of cans - much easier to change type of fixture and aiming. Lighting design can be used to give 'interest points' to a plain room and also make a room seem larger or smaller than it actually is.

[dlminehart]

I initially considered track, for ease of installation, aiming, and changing, but decided it was too intrusive given the 8' ceilings (lessened by about 1-1/2 inches due to subfloor, padding, and carpet). I'm only 5'10" and, standing on tiptoe, can just about touch the ceiling.

[430752]

I like the central fixture not being recessed. But with only an 8' ceiling, guess a ceiling fan is likely out of the question. So a nice dome light. I'd spend on that light a bit since it is a focal point. Then eyeballs for the fireplace wall, certainly on its own switch. You may only need two (each to the side of the center of the fireplace) rather than one in cent er and two on side, but not sure due to expanse of the width of that wall. Two cans above the couch and two above the entertainment area? I guess. I would use eyeballs at the entertainment area to wash the wall/shelves rather than downlight. I'd also stagger themto left and right of tv, but if you're ever gonna switch the layout around, you may want to mirror both sides to one another so as not to look too odd.

I would not break up my switches. I might consider a 3 way for the center light with the second switch near the slider.

Why not go whole hog and put a plasma/lcd above the fireplace, couch opposite, nice library type shelving on the one wall and dress up the slider and that wall as a showpiece to the outside?

[LinuxRandal]

Win Brownie Points

You want to light up the room, tell the LOYL to enter it.

[rnelson0]

But with only an 8' ceiling, guess a ceiling fan is likely out of the question.

A ceiling fan should not destroy the room. There are compact height fans, too.

Track lighting works well. The neighbor next to us had track lighting in their family room and it did not feel intrusive at all. I understand if you like recessed lighting, but done properly, hanging light fixtures will not intrude upon the room at all and can add to it.



Does this room get a lot of sun? Will you have lamps on endtables or 5' pole stands around the room too, or will this be the only lighting? Will there be light entering from the room to the right (kitchen?) The corners, particularly those on the exterior wall, will be the darkest spots but depending on your layout may not be particularly important. Or you could put lamps there.

BTW they make CFL dimmable recessed lighting bulbs now, if that is what you were referring to. I have not used them myself but I will probably buy one or two when I need a replacement to see how they work.

[dlminehart]

I have a compact height ceiling fan in the bedroom. Dislike having to be careful, when folding sheets, to not lift my hand into it. Even the compact ones are about 9" high, and a light adds at least a few more inches. So, it ends up only a foot over my head. Only 8-10" over the head of my 6'2" BIL.

How high were the neighbor's ceilings? I've seen non-intrusive track lighting in 9' rooms, and as task lighting over counters and islands in kitchens, where they're not intruding on head room.

I've heard about these dimmable CFLs, but hear that they need special fixtures as well as bulbs. Have never seen any. When I asked a salesman at our local hardware store, he said they're expensive, but he's never seen any, either.

[chopnhack]

The quartz bulbs you mention get very hot and give off an unpleasant white light - great for museum's etc. but imho in homes i prefer 2700k lighting - warm white. They do make dimmable compact fluorescent bulbs now. The dimmable CFL's fit existing 6" cans. (Probably 4" cans too, but i dont know for a fact). Go with 6" cans if your goal is to simply illuminate the room thoroughly. But if you are using this room mostly for relaxing, tv watching, perhaps romantic fireplace watching, then 4" would probably be more ideal. You won't overload the room with light.

[LCHIEN]

If incandescents are being phased out (wiki says the Clean energy act of 2007 legislates incandescent bulbs of 310 to 2600 lumens will be outlawed by 2014) basically 40-150 watts, excluding rough service bubs, 3-way bulbs, certain colors, will be unavailable.

How are lighting companies specializing in unique eyeball and can fixtures going to keep bulbs available or are you putting in fixtures that will be unlampable after 2014?
I am already looking for CFL replacements for some of my cans but can't find ones that fit. I also have bar fixtures in the bath room using rows of 40-w clear 4" globes. What am I going to replace those with? How about my hanging fixture that use the flame-looking candelabra base incandescents? No curly-Q CFLs are going to look right there. Maybe I'm worrying needlessly .

[LinuxRandal]

. but imho in homes i prefer 2700k lighting - warm white.

If incandescents are being phased out (wiki says the Clean energy act of 2007 legislates incandescent bulbs of 310 to 2600 lumens will be outlawed by 2014) basically 40-150 watts, excluding rough service bubs, 3-way bulbs, certain colors, will be unavailable.

All right, I am confused. I know it was discussed before (not finding it currently) but I thought 2700K was cool white, not warm white (don't remember the K values of current bulbs compared to florescent).

Also is there a relation of Lumens to the K value?

Thanks