Fastening Deck Boards

[LYU370]

Getting ready to start building a deck. Trying to decide what to use to fasten the deck boards with. SS Screws or hidden fasteners? Decking is going to be cedar.

What do you think?

[pelligrini]

How do the hidden fasteners work?

Screws would be easier to do any type of board replacement if those hidden fasteners go in from the side and get covered by the adjoining board.

[JimD]

I just used plated deck screws from Home Depot and Lowes. They are holding up pretty well. The deck is Trex. I drilled and countersunk the screws. It took a bit more time but came out nice.

Jim

[mschrank]

I built a cedar deck last year. I considered hidden fasteners, but I thought the cost was prohibitive. If I were doing a really high end job with ipe or some other exotic wood, then I would've considered it (figuring if I can afford ipe then I can afford hidden fasteners.

I used Fastap brand screws. They weren't stainless, but the flavor I got are coated to prevent corrosion and discoloration of the cedar.

Since I wanted a neat appearance with the exposed screws, I made a simple little jig out of a scrap of 2x4 cut the same length as the width of my deck boards. I screwed a piece of 1/4" hardboard to the end, with a slot cut into to match the width of the deck joists. I also drove a couple of deck screws at the desired spacing into the top of the 2x4, just far enough that the tips barely poked through the bottom.
Set the deck board in place, slide the jig over the joist and deck board.
Tap the top of the jig to mark the screw locations.
The 1/4" hardboard provides spacing for the next board.

I made two of these since my dad was helping me. I was happy with the way it ended up. All the screws were neatly lined up and the same distance from the edge of each board, and it didn't add much time to the process.

[Slik Geek]

I haven't used the "hidden" fasteners, so I am not speaking from experience, only from perception.

I prefer to have "un-hidden" fasteners (screws) for two reasons:

1) Snugging up boards (tightening fasteners) as the wood dries and shrinks is easier. It may be impossible with at least some types of hidden fasteners - I would be afraid that some boards might start "floating" and bounce when stepped on after some time. I'm guessing that is why some of the hidden fastener systems want you to also use adhesive.

2) Replacement of damaged or rotted boards are easier.

If your deck is low to the ground, prohibiting access below, you'll really appreciate reason #2 if an opossum crawls under your deck and dies. It happened to me. The only way I was able to extricate the rotting animal was by removing deck boards and lifting the stinky mess out.

I've not used stainless screws, but for my next deck I will. Regardless of how thick the protective coating on steel screws may be, eventually they will be compromised and begin to rust. Claims of their longevity are just that: claims. My experience indicates the claims of lifespan are based upon use in a dry climate.

Stainless screws are a good choice for the long haul.

[Tom Slick]

what material are you building the deck out of?

a friend of mine just built a deck out of ipe and used hidden fasteners. it looks great but some of the boards decided to warp and the fasteners are flexing enough to allow the gaps to open. on TOH Tom Silva built an ipe deck using miller dowels, it was a nice look.

There are special screws for composite decks that make the install look much better by cutting down on the mushroom that happens when you use regular screws.

If you are using regular lumber then just use good quality deck screws, I like deck mate or fasten master screws

[siliconbauhaus]

This thread couldn't have come at a better time. I'll be installing the first shed unit I built and will be using ipe for the decking. I was going to use ipe-clips but maybe I'll get some stainless screws instead.

[milanuk]

A couple years ago I build the 'deck-from-heck'... basically had to scrap the existing deck that wrapped around two sides of the house (approx 28' on the short side x 35' on the long side) and rebuilt it to 28' x 60' (completely wrapping two sides). I was just using plain old cedar 5/4 planking, which the lumber yard delivered in a huge bundle of 8', 10', 12' & 14' lengths. Some of the lumber was still so wet it was literally dripping moisture. Obviously, it warped some!

It took me a while to find an idiot... er, customer service person who had even the most remote clue of what I was talking about when I was looking for a stud tweaker or tuner, or as Stanley calls them, a 'board bender'. Ended up having to order one from Amazon.com, but trust me, these things (or the similar BoWrench) are worth their weight in gold for lining up troublesome boards. That jig shown above would have made life even easier.

We ended up pre-drilling *all* the holes in the deck boards to keep them from splitting, especially on the ends where two boards met over a stud and you have to angle the hole to get some bite in the deck board and the joist w/o splitting the end of the board.

Another tool that came in handy was a pneumatic palm-nailer for the hurricane ties (required by code, at least locally) between the joists and the main beam. I suck with a hammer, so this thing saved my fingers big time. A full sized framing nailer would be faster for 90% of it, but there are a lot of areas where a palm nailer fits better.

[gerti]

I am considering replacing our deck (cheap PT, nailed). The nails really drive me crazy in the winter during snow removal, so I almost had my mind made up that the new deck will use hidden fasteners. But the comments above gave me pause, will have to research that some more.

Anyhow if you do use screws in cedar spend the extra money and use stainless instead of coated. I have yet to see a coated screw that didn't eventually (usually rather sooner than later) still start to stain the wood in ugly ways.

A while back we had a landscaper build a small fence (just didn't have the time back then), and as it was cedar I requested stainless. He used coated screws instead, claiming he never had a problem with them. The staining started within weeks, and I ended up replacing all the screws (as well as stiffening up the gates, he did not do a good job on them and they started drooping).

[91FE]

...Another tool that came in handy was a pneumatic palm-nailer for the hurricane ties (required by code, at least locally) between the joists and the main beam. I suck with a hammer, so this thing saved my fingers big time. A full sized framing nailer would be faster for 90% of it, but there are a lot of areas where a palm nailer fits better.

Can't beat a palm nailer for puting up joist hangers. They are worth their weight in gold! I'm so happy I got one while doing my deck.

To answer your original question... I decided against hidden fasteners for my Evergrain deck. They pose a problem with crooked boards... and most systems are pretty expensive. I sprang for the color-matched composite screws that don't mushroom instead.

[LYU370]

Thanks for all the feedback. While I'd love to get Ipe, just can't afford it right now, it would easily triple the cost of the deck so I'll be using cedar for the decking and railings and good ol' pressure treated for the structure. I think I'm leaning towards using SS trimhead screws instead of the hidden fasteners, if I was going to use Ipe there be would be no doubt that I'd use the hidden fasteners. But with cedar, I think screws will be more economical. Hidden fasteners would add almost 50% to the cost of the cedar decking. Love that jig, think I'll make one as well to align the screw holes. Was thinking of using the Headcote colored SS screws, but I might go with the plain SS screws.

I'm with you on the palm nailer, just picked one up from grizzly along with the forstner bits that were on sale. I can swing a hammer, but manual labor means you just haven't found the right power tool yet.

My current deck is a small 8' x 14', I'll be adding a 16' x 20' addition on to it complete with low voltage lighting and hidden speakers in the railings. Deadline is May 8th, my daughter graduates from college on the 9th and her graduation party is at my house on the 10th. Going to be cutting it close but I should make it if the weather cooperates. But who knows, it's Chicago, we had snow today.

[siliconbauhaus]

I might nip out to get a palm nailer as I have a bunch of hangers to attach.

Just out of interest, what'd the LF price of cedar? I'm getting ipe for $2 LF.

[jhart]

That's a pretty slick spacer. When I did my deck and my daughters, just pounded a 16 p nail in a short block of 2 x 4 (did 4 blocks) and used them for the spacing between the boards. If the wood is still quite wet, you may want to use a 8 p or even a finish nail, as the spacing will shrink as it dries and the spacing will become larger.

[cwithboat]

After noticing the material used for ramps and docks at our state marine parks, I researched it and built our deck using it. Made of fiberglass, it is virtually indestructible, snow removal is not an issue, nor is standing water. We choose to use the non-slip surface side up. While priced at the level of exotic wood, installation is a breeze as it comes in 12' X 4' sheets.
http://www.gratingpacific.com/molded...ss_grating.htm

[Slik Geek]

If the wood is still quite wet, you may want to use a 8 p or even a finish nail, as the spacing will shrink as it dries and the spacing will become larger.

I didn't put any spacing between the decking boards on the last deck that I built using standard treated fir lumber. Even though the wood wasn't "wet" (I stickered it in my garage for a few weeks prior to installation), I knew it still had some drying to do). After installation, and the boards finished drying (in place), the gaps between the boards grew to a decent gap, sufficient for proper drainage, without being so wide that everything would drop through the cracks.