Running Cable Question

[Greg.B]

Well after finishing the basement, the Wife and I decided to move our computer down there. Which does cause me some grief as I need to have a connection to the internet. While I do have one for the TV, I don't have one for the PC. Currently I have the line split, but with Cable internet and HD boxes, if can only split the connection 1x (which is done on the main coming in) or you experience poor internet quailty especially when the TV is on. SO....I need to run a new cable. The issue I have is perhaps simple, perhaps not.

I need to run the cable the length of the ceiling, which I have access on one side. But when I tired to run it, using a fishtape, I constantly got hung up. The one saving grace I think I may have is the recessed lights I installed. However these are the type that are nailed to the ceiling joist. Does anyone know if there is a way to disassemble the light can from below, so you can at least get a hand up in the hole. I remember looking at the lights before I put them in, and it seems you can unscrew the can, and would be able to get access. If I can get that far, the rest is much easier.

[frumper64]

How about wireless?

Have you thought about installing a wireless network instead of running cable? Wireless router costs are pretty reasonable and with that in place you can have the PC anywhere in the house without having to worry about running cable.

[Tequila]

I'll tackle the first question:

If you have a strong cable signal, you should have no trouble when you split it. You need to get a splitter than is labeled up to at least 1 GHz, but 2 GHz is preferred. If it's not labeled, it's probably only good up to 350 MHz.

When you split it, the leg that goes to the cable modem should not be split again. If you need to add more TV's, you'll need to split the other leg accordingly.

If you try it and find that the signal is too weak, you can buy a signal amp for around $35-$60. Put it before the split, and you'll overcome any losses in the splitter.

On the second question, I've only done a few recessed lights, but if it's not a remodel assembly, I've never seen one that can be partly disassembled. Either way, make sure you leave a little distance between the coax and the power wires. If they're too close you can get interference which will fuzz up your cable signal.

[Greg.B]

I need it hardwired. Not to sound like a nerd, but when playing online video games, you need to be hardwired so there is no lag in game play.

[Greg.B]

Your right on about the splitters. The issue is that when it comes in the house it splits. For the TV and the Modem, but now that I moved the PC, I've had to split the split, which as you said is a no-no. And the exact issue I have. So I have to fish a wire long about 25ft of enclosed ceiling. And I'm snagging on everything and anything. I think that there are screws in the can, that you can remove and pop the can up and off. If that is the case, I will have access all the way to were I need it.

I'll tackle the first question:

If you have a strong cable signal, you should have no trouble when you split it. You need to get a splitter than is labeled up to at least 1 GHz, but 2 GHz is preferred. If it's not labeled, it's probably only good up to 350 MHz.

When you split it, the leg that goes to the cable modem should not be split again. If you need to add more TV's, you'll need to split the other leg accordingly.

If you try it and find that the signal is too weak, you can buy a signal amp for around $35-$60. Put it before the split, and you'll overcome any losses in the splitter.

On the second question, I've only done a few recessed lights, but if it's not a remodel assembly, I've never seen one that can be partly disassembled. Either way, make sure you leave a little distance between the coax and the power wires. If they're too close you can get interference which will fuzz up your cable signal.

[LCHIEN]

Have you thought about installing a wireless network instead of running cable? Wireless router costs are pretty reasonable and with that in place you can have the PC anywhere in the house without having to worry about running cable.

I agree, wireless networking is working very good these days, and the newest units are very inexpensive with data rates far in exces of what you receive over the cable. on top of that you won't have to worry about locating your computer need the feed into the basement and you are also free to relocate any computer anywhere in the house. Unless you have some objections, that's the way to go.

The latest 802.11g units are fast and the distance improved. I have a 2-story house and the wireless located on the 1st floor front corner of the house and I can receive a strong signal everywhere in the house, including the opposite corner on the 2nd floor.

PS. I haven't measured it but I can't imagine there's a lag due to wireless. I can try and do a tracert or ping on my home network and see tonite. It will record the delays.

[Rslaugh]

I'll tackle the first question:

.....
If you try it and find that the signal is too weak, you can buy a signal amp for around $35-$60. Put it before the split, and you'll overcome any losses in the splitter.

.....

I think the amp has to be bi-directional. I used one of these at my townhouse on a very weak to begin with signal coming into my house and split it multiple times but as mentioned before only once on the leg to the cable modem.

Instead of fish tape try fish stix. I know they have them at HD and probably Lowes. They're a bit pricy compared to a fishtape but much more positive and easier to control. They are multiple fiberglass rods, each about 4-5' in length that screw together. Depending on how long a run you have you might have to cut a hole in your ceiling but that shouldn't be that hard to patch.

[rnelson0]

I've had to split the split, which as you said is a no-no.

Then take the split out. You can get a female-to-female adapter that goes where the Y adapter was and eliminates the split you're no longer using.

However, you are talking about running co-axial cable. Why? Leave the co-ax where it is. Leave the modem where it is. From the modem to your PC or router, you use ethernet cable which is low-voltage, thin, and flexible. Make a long run of this instead, either from the modem to the router or the router to the PC. You can run your ethernet cable pretty much anywhere you want. It shouldn't go right next to unshielded power lines for optimal use, but honestly inside a home you'd probably never notice. Try and get a 6" gap or more, or put the ethernet in conduit (makes it easier to add further runs as well).

You're limited to 100m or 328 feet on an ethernet run from powered device to powered device (i.e. if you put a connector in between, that doesn't count as a new run). This should provide you all the length you need to go horizontal, vertically, and diagonally in your house to get from point A to point B.

Terminating wires is easy - MUCH easier than terminating co-ax - but the equipment to do so does cost money. You can buy up to 100' pre-made cables at www.monoprice.com. The only problem you'll have running it is that the connectors on the end are much fatter than the cable itself, but if you can make it work it would save you the expensive of acquiring a crimper.

[Greg.B]

A buddy of mine recommends the fish sticks as well.

I understand wireless is very good these days but when talking gaming, its always hardwire.

I could do as suggest and move the modem to the incoming feed, and run CAT5 from there, still the same issue is getting the wire through the walls.

As noted, I'm hoping that instead of cutting holes in the ceiling, that I could just open holes though the recessed cans. I think they have screws holding the can part to the frame, and once removed I might have access. That and the sticks should do it.

I'll keep you posted.

[Crash2510]

to answer your can light question there are quarter inch screws typically in the rim after the trim is removed this will allow just the can part to come out

these are done like this because their has to be a way to get to the junction without ripping the cieling down that is why their is a cover on either side of the box

this is easy to do with a short nut driver or rachet if you don't want to invest in fish stix

the stix are a very good product by the way

[TheRic]

I would suggest wireless. The bottle neck is going to be your Internet connection NOT the wireless (assuming 1 computer to internet, computer to computer you will see some lag with wireless).

Can you use the old cable as a pull wire? Tie a rope to the end of the current cable pull the cable with rope thru. Then tape the old cable and the new cable to the rope. Pull the rope back. Stagger the cable connections so it gradually gets larger.

[rnelson0]

I could do as suggest and move the modem to the incoming feed, and run CAT5 from there, still the same issue is getting the wire through the walls.

Well, where exactly are you running it? Maybe you should go down a floor before going across the ceiling. You can easily drill a 1/4-3/8" hole in a carpeted floor and feed cat5 through it without leaving much if any gap, then throw some silicone caulk around it. You'd be surprised at how difficult that is to spot if it's by the baseboard in the corner.

Cat5 is unshielded, so I would not run it near your can lighting. Coax has a shield, so you could run that next the lighting without a problem. You can also run cat5 outside but, due to the lack of shielding, you will want to buy two lightning arrestors, one for each side, which are about $30 each. More expensive but eaiser than running it through walls, I guess. Just run it out a window sill or existing hole in the wall (typically right next to the coax) and back in another window. We used to do this in the dorms at college all the time and even in a few businesses, works great.

[Kristofor]

These days there are tons of folks gaming with wireless connections.

That said, only my Wii is wireless (and laptop if I'm not at my desk). The rest of my PCs, Tivos, and gaming systems (including the PS3 which has built-in wireless) are all running over wired connections. With a single device or even a handful of lightly used devices wireless isn't much of an issue but try streaming video to a couple other devices at the same time and you do feel the latency even if the total bandwidth is enough.

Telling people not to watch the DVD collection or other recorded content because you're trying to frag your brother in online may cause unhappiness. 100Mbit or 1Gbit switched per device is a much lower hassle factor (once the wiring is in place).

I would pull Cat5e/6 for Ethernet rather than RG6 for the cable. It's more flexible in the long run. Will you even go to DSL or FiOS (never say never). If so, you're ready to go without pulling another cable later. It also gives you the option of putting other data network devices near your demark for when you want to connect to them from multiple places in the house. At the very least as always remember to pull an extra cord for the next time.

Kristofor.

[LCHIEN]

Wireless LAN latencies

just a follow up note to Wireless LAN latencies.
Using a D-Link DI524 wireless router 802.11G on my home network,

I can ping from a wired client to a wired client,
PING reports <1ms and Visual traceroute reports 0 ms.

From a wired client to a wireless client (one wireless hop)
PING reports 2 ms
and Visual traceroute reported 2 ms.

2 ms is not a lot of time, depending upon what its compared to. LCD Screen refresh is only every 16 ms or so and human reaction time is around 400-500 ms.

So it appears one wireless hop (e.g. your PC to your router) will only add 2 ms delay.
On a LAN that's 2ms total delay, using two wireless clients may increase that to 4 ms total delay between them.
over a WAN (Internet) your network latency may measure 50 or 100 ms or more, 2 ms would not be appreciably more.

I also tested latency while running a DSL speed test, maximizing internet traffic, latency still reported as 2 ms. That was expected with a 2.5 mbps data transfer and a 54 mbps LAN network speed.

On what gaming would 2 or 4 ms matter? Normally you'd have your packets long before the LCD refreshed.

[iceman61]

He's right. He will need to be hardwired for gaming or it will show up immediately. Video is a resource hog.

Also, rnelson is right also, "Leave the modem where it is. From the modem to your PC or router, you use ethernet cable which is low-voltage, thin, and flexible."

But here is where I disagree. If you are a hardcore gamer, my suggestion would be to run cat6 instead of cat5e. There is not much of a price difference plus you have the potential get more if you need to go that route in the future. I can't point you to where I saw it but I have seen a plastic "gun" that shoot string that you can tie your wire/cable onto somewhere. There wasn't much to it so it shouldn't be a very big cost. $15 or so.

Get creative on pulling your cable across the ceiling. Maybe try a rubber ball with an eye-screw & a string tied to it. Try throwing that across that ceiling. I'll bet within 5 throw you can get it across it & then tie the cable on the string & pull it to where you need it. I have used this method before & it worked like a charm for me, but I haven't really seen your application either.