Adding a window (permits?)

[ivwshane]

I'm remodeling one of my bedrooms and before I get to deep I would like to know what things I need to be aware of.

One of the things I want to do is to remove and existing window (2 story house and the bedroom is located on the 2nd floor) and add one or two new windows in different locations.

How and where do I go about finding what the local laws require? And is this the sort of thing I would need a permit for?

[Tequila]

Not sure where you are, but where I live you need a permit to replace windows, unless it's due to a broken pane. And we definitely need one to add windows.

You should be able to get the info from your local licensing & inspector's office.

[cabinetman]

To know the exact requirements you would have to call your local building and zoning office for the city where you live. You may get a run around about who can give the answer, but be diligent and wind up with the proper office. I recommend making a note of the name of the person that gives you information. The codes are different for different areas, it could be the dollar amount of the repair or replacement, or the type of repair.

Here in Florida, the codes have tightened up since the hurricane damages. I've got 21 windows to replace (I've done about half already). Here we need a permit for any repair over a certain amount of money. There is an allowance of $500.00 per year on some type of repairs. As for the windows here, the codes are very strict, requiring "Letters of Acceptance" from Dade County, drawings and schematics from the manufacturer, and an installation inspection of mounting screw sizes and type.

I'm doing 2-3 at a time as we can afford them and a permit is valid as long as work is performed in 90 days.

There is some things you just can't do here even if you know how. For example, when we bought this house, the range was LP gas with a fairly small tank outside. The range was a total wreck and not usable. We decided to buy a new range, gas dryer and gas water heater. Well, the hookup is basically a plumbing type installation, which I could do, but a certified and licensed installer had to do the work. So, the gas company we bought a larger tank from we used to provide the drawings to the city and get the permit, and install all the appliances.

For the little cost of permits, don't get caught trying to avoid them. It can cost you dearly and by the day in fines, and possibly a re-do of what's been done. There's always some neighbor or nosey busybody who will turn you in. In this area the city workers (trash, recyclables, etc), meter readers, just about anybody I've heard get a reward for turning in an illegal project. How 'bout that. Talk about "big brother".

Some of the reasoning about permits is to protect your own safety and everyone around you.



A THING OF BEAUTY IS A JOY FOREVER - John Keats

[siliconbauhaus]

As cabinetman says mate but I'd suggest if you have the time go down to the permit office. That way you actually see who it is youre talking to and dont get the run around on the phone.

Some places are really funny about permits. I had to get a permit to put up a play house for the kids. The neighbour one over from me has a shack up in his yard right on the property line and there's no way he had a permit for it. ( no setback )

[scorrpio]

"Legally" adding a window is a major pain. Getting permit, getting a structural engineer or architect to approve the changes, having the framing changes inspected, final inspections by building and fire inspector, and electric inspector might need to look if any cables were moved.... Generally, if you hire a contractor to do it, they will take care of this.

But if doing your own, and you know what you doing, it is often better to 'stealth' it. If modding a load bearing wall, be sure to put in temporary supports, put in a proper-sized header, and follow all manufacturer's instructions for the window.

I recently put in a window in second-floor bedroom in a gable wall. Opened interior wall, and did all the rough opening framing first, then in one day opened up the siding, cut the sheathing, put in the window and sealed/flashed everything.

It kinda depends on the neighbors, too. All my neighbors are the DIY types who constantly do home improvements and won't bother with permits where possible. But some people are "blessed" with the kind of neighbors who have nothing better to do but stick their nose in other's business, and will rat you out to authorities the second they think you doing some unsanctioned improvement.

[radhak]

There is some things you just can't do here even if you know how.

CM,
How do i find out what all needs a permit and what does not in Broward County? I am mulling getting an electrician to add a new outlet in my garage, maybe a 220 volt one. Will that need a permit and inspection?

[LCHIEN]

To remove a window, click the little [X] in the upper right hand corner.
To add a window, click <Start> in the lower left hand corner of your screen.
You don't need a permit, however, to do either of these, you will need a license from Bill Gates.

[cabinetman]

CM,
How do i find out what all needs a permit and what does not in Broward County? I am mulling getting an electrician to add a new outlet in my garage, maybe a 220 volt one. Will that need a permit and inspection?

First call the City of Miramar and find out what their requirements are. You may find out either the city or Broward County or BOTH may have jurisdiction.

Make sure you call from a public pay phone in Pembroke Pines or Sunrise, wear gloves and use a hankerchief over the mouthpiece and disguise your voice as much as possible. Also try not to stay on the line for more than 38 seconds.

I have added electrical without permits, but for you and especially 220V, a licensed electrician might be a good choice. If you're in an HOA (Homeowners Assoc), check your documents to see if you need Association approval or not.

I know the proper method is a hassle and a paper trail with waiting periods. But I have some real examples of horror stories by going against the book (not me of course)



A THING OF BEAUTY IS A JOY FOREVER - John Keats

[ragswl4]

If you are in California, I think you need a permit to just buy the nails. Seriously, just take a morning or afternoon and go to the nearest county building department office and ask them. In Riverside county they are very nice about telling you what you need, but take forever approving the drawings to do what they told you that you needed to do. Took a year for our plans to clear the county and only after the architect threatened them with a 9mm. (Of course we are building a house so that's a lot different) Same process applies sans the 9mm.

[dlminehart]

We had our single-pane aluminum-framed windows replaced with the plug-in-and-go double-pane vinyl-framed variety. In checking into it, one of the things I found was that, in our city, the building code specifies that the bottom of a bedroom window cannot be higher than 4' from the floor. The idea being that, in case of a fire, people need to be able to climb out. The inserted window ended up with a larger frame, and therefore was a couple inches higher from the floor. Just made it.

[ivwshane]

Thanks a lot for the replies guys!

I'm really hoping that it wont be that big of a deal and if it is it will make this remodel half as nice as I want it to be


For anyone that has gone down to their local office, are they usually pretty good about giving you details? Do they just give you a print out or usually just tell you verbally? What sort of things do you think I should know that they might ask me?

[scorrpio]

I can share my experience on my recent replacement of a heating sytem. It involved:
1. Dismantling and getting rid of the old oil boiler and electic heater.
2. Installing in-house gas piping and sleeving out to street.
3. Full install of a new gas direct-vent boiler, indirect fired heater, all the piping - including splitting 2nd floor out to a separate zone.
4. Electrical wiring for it all - including taking out the no longer needed heater circuit.
5. Routing the 3" direct vent exhaust/intake pipes through existing masonry chimney and properly terminating them.

All in all, major piece of work. For a job like this, you gotta get everything legal. Permits, inspections and the like. Gas company would never turn on the service unless inspection stickers are all accounted for.

I think, the treatment you get at the building dept. greatly depends on how prepared you come. I got all the plans, piping and electric schematics, done on the computer and printed out to look as legible as possible. I supplied a full materials list, and even a letter I got from Weil-McLain (my boiler/heater brand) that my projected vent installation was OK. At the township, they looked over it all, and were very forthcoming with telling what was needed (plumbing, electric. fire), helping me with a few form sections I was not sure about, and raised no comments about me doing it myself. Mind you, this is NJ, not MS or CA. Cost me ~$240 for all the permits, plus there was $65 I paid to gas company for the permit to open up the road for running the line to my house.
When talking to dept. officials - especially the inspector, be sure to be very respectful, and whatever pointers and recommendations he gives, answer with "Yes, Sir", not with "Yeah, I know" and definitely not with "But my uncle Bob, who is a pro builder, does it the other way!".

Another pointer: be sure to call your home insurance company, describe the work being done, and ask if any documentation needs to be presented. In my case, they told me as long as all township permits and inspections were in order, they were fine, just give them a call when remove the oil tank, for the premium reduction.

[broschultz]

Adding windows in bedrooms must meet certain requirements for accessibility in NY to allow people to escape a fire. Something you want to consider anyway. So while there are places in NY where you don't need a permit to install one, installing the wrong one in the wrong location is a violation of the State building code.

[ivwshane]

Adding windows in bedrooms must meet certain requirements for accessibility in NY to allow people to escape a fire. Something you want to consider anyway. So while there are places in NY where you don't need a permit to install one, installing the wrong one in the wrong location is a violation of the State building code.

Same here. I talked to the city and they said a minimum of 20" wide and 24" high opening.

He also said (but wasn't positive) that the minimum height from floor to sill was 44", if this is true it kind of ruins everything I'm not sure who I would talk to to find out for sure though.

I was looking at the header for the existing window and its a massive 4x12 header! My guess is that I will have to duplicate that for the new windows, even though they will be smaller.

[Kristofor]

He also said (but wasn't positive) that the minimum height from floor to sill was 44", if this is true it kind of ruins everything I'm not sure who I would talk to to find out for sure though.

Pretty sure that you're going to find that it's a MAXIMUM of 44" sill height, not a minimum. Also around here, the opening must be at least 20" wide and 24" tall. However, if you're at the minimum for either of those, the other dimension needs to increase as the opening must also be at least 5.7 square feet of size. I'm not sure where that number came from, if it equates to something more sensible in metric, or common window dimensions or what.

Of course your city/county/state may have their own rules which could be similar or totally differen. If the guy at the city didn't know his own regs though, I question much of the perceived value of your inspection/permitting regime...