Copper Pipe Solidering Help

[jx67]

I need to tap into the main water line for a softener. Between one elbow and the house wall I have about 4.5" to work with. The problem is that between the elbow and the wall (about 5/8" from the elbow) there's a coupling already in place. I don't really want to touch the elbow as it is too close to the main shut off.

My question is, if I were to try removing the coupling, since it is so close to the elbow, I think the exiting elbow joint maybe loosen. If I were to cut it at the edge of the coupling, I have only less than 1/2" overlap for the soldering, would it be enough?

Thanks a lot,
Joe.

[crokett]

5/8" is not enough to add a t between the elbow and the coupling. you might consider either adding a longer extenstion between the coupling and elbow then rerouting the coupling connection as needed or removing the elbow, adding a compressing fitting to get you to PEX and using PEX tubing for your water softner and to reconnect to the shutoff.

[scorrpio]

Let me see if I get this right.
The sequece goes like this:
Main shutoff - elbow - coupling - pipe going into wall. Pipe going into the wall goes to the rest of home, correct? I don't suppose you want to tap in BEFORE the main shutoff? Which way does elbow point? Is main shutoff below, above or to the side of elbow?

Personally, I would go like this:
1. Shut off the main.
2. Open faucets, let water drain as much as you can.
3. Take a wet rag, and wrap it thoroughly around the main shutoff valve - this should protect it from heat.
4. If this is in the basement, getting the water properly drained can be hard. You might need to drill a hole in the 'bend' of the elbow to drain it.
5. Heat the elbow thoroughly, unsweat it from the pipe completely.
6. Now, instead of the elbow, put in a tee.

Before you do all the above, I suggest you run the pipe from the softener all the way here so you can sweat it into that tee at the same time.

Depending on the configuration, it might be better to take out the coupling, not the elbow. (Drill hole in the center of the coupling to drain it, then)

[jx67]

Thanks for the replies. The sequence is very much like Scorrpio put it. The main pipe (1") comes up to the main shut off, continue about 3 inches to an elbow (not exactly a classic elbow as the other side is also a faucet outlet, the elbow points toward the wall, but the water softener will be installed on another wall perpendicular to this), then about 5/8" inch later the coupling, then about 2 inches after that goes into the wall.

It looks like removing the coupling is not going to be easy, so I am thinking now to cut between the main shut off and the elbow. I will replace the elbow faucet. I guess that way I won't have to worry about removing the coupling and also have enough overlap for soldering. BTW, the way to drill a hole in the coupling to remove the coupling is brilliant.

What do you think?

Joe.

[scorrpio]

You mean elbow is something like this?
http://tube-fittings.globalspec.com/...images/772.jpg

Anycase, examine the pipe thoroughly. Copper pipe has quite a bit of flex to it, but you are not likely to get much flex out of the main that comes out of the floor. It is most likely a type K, and will be too short to flex a full 1" (the depth of a 1" fitting)

You need to see what you can do with the pipe going into the wall. What kind of wall is it? Basically, does it look like it is set in the wall rigidly, or it might have some 'play' if disconnected from the main supply? Does it look like this pipe, upon going into the wall, makes an elbow and runs inside that wall, or it keeps going straight through the wall and continues on the other side of it? Basically the question, think you could push that pipe "into" the wall by about an inch? If you can, removing the coupling should not be hard.

If the pipe is set into the wall 100% rigidly, I would do following:
1. Initial setup
2. Cut the elbow. Use hacksaw to cut away the elbow portion that does not have pipe inside it.
3. Unsweat the remainder of the elbow from main shutoff side pipe. (You might need to remove the water in that pipe by wicking it off with a paper towel)
4. If you have a 3" or so piece of pipe spare, you can just unsweat the coupling from the wall pipe. Otherwise, you'll need to take off elbow remainder, take out the nipple, then remove the coupling - you'll need the nipple.
5. Thoroughly clean all pipe ends, taking care to remove any remaining solder. Good way to do this is to heat till solder melts, then wipe it off with a wet rag. Cut a new 2 5/8" nipple or clean the one you had between elbow and coupling. Put a slip coupling(one without center stops) on the wall pipe.
6: Assembly: Insert a 2 5/8" nipple into tee branch. Seat the tee on the supply pipe. Move the slip coupling half-way onto the nipple. Connect pipe going to softener to top of tee. (Be sure to clean and flux everything first), Sweat everything.

[jx67]

Wow, thank you so much for the steps.

The pipe setting are very rigid so no play at all. The 'elbow' is really not exactly an elbow, but more like a Tee, except one side is 3/4" diameter. I can't tell exactly if it is threaded on that side.

After much thoughts, I decided it's not a good idea to try to remove the coupling. I am looking to make a cut between the shutoff and the 'elbow' Tee. I will need to buy one of this Tee to replace it. That way I won't have to worry about loosening the existing joints.

Interesting you mentioned 3". Is that the minimum distance spacing recommended between each joint?

Thanks,
Joe.

[scorrpio]

I'd still recommend doing it the way I suggest - cut out the elbow's bend, unsweat the rest, and then use tee + slip coupling. I mention 3" because if you go by my steps, you'll need a 2 5/8" piece of 1" pipe between the tee and the slip coupling - either cut new or recycling the piece currently there. At local HD, 1" tyle L copper is almost $50 for the 10' stick - so you really don't want to get entire stick just to cut 2 5/8" from it - hence advice to save an existing piece unless you got some spare pipe lying around.

Far as distance between joints, there is really no de facto minimum as long as you can sweat it properly. I usually try to leave no less than 0.5" between the fittings. If you sweat right next to an existing fitting, wrapping a wet rag over it is all you need.

[JimD]

Also you may want one of the heat shields they sell in the soldering section. They help to make sure you do not burn the wall - but I still manage when I am not careful. They give you at least a little margin to position the torch where it will do what it needs to do.

Jim