generator: transfer switch or no

[jwaterdawg]

I just picked up a used portable generator for a good deal. We live out in the kuuuuuntry, meaning when the power goes, it's sometimes a while before we get it back. We are gonna use the generator for a few essentials (fridge, couple of lights, foreman grill,computer-so I can browse bt3central!). Since we are on a well, I'd also like to hook up the water pump. Looks like I have two options:

(1) transfer switch at the main panel for a few essential circuits including the water pump
OR
(2) drop cords plus put a junction box out on the pumphouse

Transfer switches for what I need look to run around $200, which is not that bad. Or I was thinking I could basically put a plug and receptacle out on the pumphouse and when the power goes, unplug the pump and hook it to the generator.

So, question is: is the transfer switch really all that more convenient and safer than (2)? I can see the convenience of just throwing the switch and would rather not have to run dropcords throughout the house. The safety issue is of special concern since we have small kids who love to put their fingers and mouths on and in everything.

Anyway, I think I have already made up my mind but just thought I'd ask for opinions, thoughts, suggestions, etc. There's alway something I've forgotten to consider and I'm sure the collective knowledge of the bt3ers won't let me down.

TIA

[eezlock]

I just picked up a used portable generator for a good deal. We live out in the kuuuuuntry, meaning when the power goes, it's sometimes a while before we get it back. We are gonna use the generator for a few essentials (fridge, couple of lights, foreman grill,computer-so I can browse bt3central!). Since we are on a well, I'd also like to hook up the water pump. Looks like I have two options:

(1) transfer switch at the main panel for a few essential circuits including the water pump
OR
(2) drop cords plus put a junction box out on the pumphouse

Transfer switches for what I need look to run around $200, which is not that bad. Or I was thinking I could basically put a plug and receptacle out on the pumphouse and when the power goes, unplug the pump and hook it to the generator.

So, question is: is the transfer switch really all that more convenient and safer than (2)? I can see the convenience of just throwing the switch and would rather not have to run dropcords throughout the house. The safety issue is of special concern since we have small kids who love to put their fingers and mouths on and in everything.

Anyway, I think I have already made up my mind but just thought I'd ask for opinions, thoughts, suggestions, etc. There's alway something I've forgotten to consider and I'm sure the collective knowledge of the bt3ers won't let me down.

TIA

Jay, definately better for the long run if you use a transfer switch to power
the most critical circuits that need to be kept powered up. Drop cords
are only a temporary solution at best, and they need to be very heavy duty
and rated to use outdoors or you might be asking for more trouble than they
would be worth. My opinion.....eezlock

[just4funsies]

Just a suggestion... If you're going to run a computer from a standard generator, you're much safer if you use a really good UPS with power conditioning built-in (they're NOT all this way). The UPS you use should run inverted output all the time, NOT just when on battery. Generator power is disliked INTENSELY by many computers. Don't ask me how I know this...

If your generator is an inverter type, you don't have this problem, but they are usually many less wattage and MUCH more expensive.

[JimD]

For occasional use, it is possible to make a male to make core up to back-feed your house circuits from a generator. You should only do this if the power from the power company is off - main breaker off. I haven't done this but I had a co-worker that did. He said it worked. It doesn't seem like a very good idea. A manual transfer switch seems like a much better idea.

Jim

[crokett]

Not having a transfer switch is a very bad idea for reasons all related to safety.

1. Unless you know what you are doing (you being a collective you) you can backfeed the grid and kill the guys trying to get your power on.
2. Unless you have a main breaker to separate you from the grid (I don't) you really can't do this safely in regards to the above without the transfer switch.
3. It takes a while to set up those cords, etc and you are probably working in the dark to do it.
4. Takes a while to flip all the breakers you don't want powered. What happens if you are out of town and LOYL has to work in the dark to do this? Also in regards to LOYL doing this, see #1

I have a transfer switch but have not installed it yet.

[just4funsies]

I don't recommend backfeeding without a transfer switch, but I've seen it done many times (thanks to the hurricanes). Most popular way is to hookup to a dryer plug, because it energizes both hot lines in the breaker box, and does it through a heavily-wired circuit. In addition to the dryer, you have to disconnect heater, A/C, oven, and other devices that pull max amps, or you risk overloading the generator. You also turn off breakers to circuits/rooms that aren't essential. But the most important thing is to DISCONNECT YOUR HOUSE C-O-M-P-L-E-T-L-Y FROM THE GRID!!! And just flipping the main breaker may not effectively do this... You've gotta yank out the meter to be sure. Disconnecting not only keeps the repair guys from burning up, but also protects the things in your house from all the out-of-phase, over/under voltages, and spikes that can and do occur while theyre working on the lines.

That said, it's still EASIER and SAFER to pre-wire and pre-test a transfer switch. That way the switchover can be quick, positive, and exactly the way you've set it up in advance. WAY better than fumbling around in the dark with a flashlight and a major case of stress...

SIDENOTE: Sure wish I had stock in a couple of generator manufacturers these last couple of years...

[LCHIEN]

For occasional use, it is possible to make a male to make core up to back-feed your house circuits from a generator. You should only do this if the power from the power company is off - main breaker off. I haven't done this but I had a co-worker that did. He said it worked. It doesn't seem like a very good idea. A manual transfer switch seems like a much better idea.

Jim

That's so extremely dangerous I would never even consider doing that for more than a millisecond.
A plug with live prongs exposed at 220V... asking to either surprise some unsuspecting soul who grabbed a hold of it live, or plugging it live to
a live circuit and blowing up some expensive stuff (the lesser of the possible problems).

[jwaterdawg]

Thanks for all the useful suggestions guys. I guess I should have clarified. I am thinking of either

(1) manual transfer switch
OR
(2) running two drop cords to the hourse (one to fridge) and one to a power strip for smaller items (tv, light, etc.). A third cord would be outside on the water pump. All these items would be physically disconnected from the grid obviously.

I definitely do _not_ want to jack into the house circuit directly (say via the dryer plug) for the reasons of safety already pointed out.

Seems like the best long term solution is a manual transfer switch.

[LJR]

Small kids and wife in the house, you're better off with the transfer switch. May I also suggest that you set up a routine test run of the generator AND the transfer switch. If it sets there for months not used you sure don't want to be surprised when you need it.

[Stytooner]

Uncle Sam sent me to generator school. Lots of do's and don't associated with generators. Lives are at stake here. The main problem with a transfer switch is that it will be powering more than just what you expect unless seperate circuits are run. If its a small generator, you can easily max out its load on just a few items, especially when one is a well pump.
Extention cords to do the job can be expensive as well.
Any way you go will cost money to do it safely.
You can back feed water to some extent, but never ever consider back feeding power.
We use extension cords here. 10 and 12 guage high quality cords. I have a pigtail that I wire to my pump motor when needed. We run a freezer, fridge, window AC, TV, charging a Laptop, intermitent microwave, and a few lights as well as the pump. This is the max for my machine or right close to it. Its a 5550 with 8000 watt surge. They have extention cords that have outlets ever 8 or 10 feet for use with generators. These are great. They have covers for unused plugs to keep prying hands out. You can also make locks to lock the ends of the cords together.
I am just not convinced that a transfer switch is the best way to go. At least not for our use.

[Stytooner]

Another thing you may want to consider is a cover for your load terminals.
Most small generators don't have a proper cover that allows a fella to keep things plugged in when its storming. Typically we have canes going on here when we need to use ours. Plenty of rain blowing everywhere.

[Jeeper]

As many have said, backfeeding is extremely dangerous, and in most areas is is highly illegal. DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER BACKFEEDING. You run the risk of killing any lineman working on the lines, as well as any one else down/up stream of your service. The POCO and the local authorities will hold you personally responsible for any injuries, death, or damage.

Turning off the main breaker is not acceptable. Example: You leave, generator quits running, helpful neighbor/friend tests /sees the main breaker off, flips it back on, nothing, determines the generator is out of fuel, refuels and fires it back up, problem solved, except he leaves the main breaker on. Poor lineman is blown off the pole and killed. With a properly wired transfer switch there is no way a tragic event like this can happen.
AGAIN, NEVER DIRECTLY BACKFEED A GENERATOR TO BUILDING/DWELLING.

[ironhat]

I spent the considerable cash for the transfer switch and the electrician and have never regretted protecting lives. I had the electrician make an appropriately sized transfer cord which connects to a box that he installed on the house. That connects directly to the transfer box. When hooked up I only need to flip one switch to completely break connectivity with the service box and allow power into the transfer box. At that point it is my choice on which of those breakers I want to turn on. Even with them all on we (electrician and I) pre-determined what the max load would be with only the essentials of each circuit turned on. We've only used it twice in 5 years but it was good insurance - both times during winter storms.

Later,
Chiz

[jgscott987]

Backfeeding

The main reason backfeeding is so dangerous is that the voltage gets stepped up as is backfeeds through the transformers on the pole. If you backfeed 220v into the grid, it will get stepped up to 400 or 800 volts in no time.

[Stick]

Absolutely unsafe! My farm service has an actual meter disconnect at the yard pole, where it separates the entire farm from the electrical grid. Once it is pulled, the transfer switch is thrown, which allows a cord with a male twistlock connection to be plugged in to the generator via extension cable. With the transfer switch on grid power, the male cord end is dead. Even with the generator running, if the cord came unplugged, the male end is dead, as per code.