Wobbly new toilet tank

**LCHIEN** · 06-15-2006, 10:47 PM

sounds like you need to pull off the caps on either side of the base and
tighten the nuts ont he T-bolts that hold it to the top of the flange in the floor. If its wobblig now the wax seal may have been broken. Typically you warm the wax ring, making it mold to the shapes and press the bowl assembly down on it as you tighten the nuts to make the shole thing sold, when it cools then you have a seal. If its been rocking while cold then the seal may not be sealing anymore.

That's about the extent of my knowledge.
If you had it installed recently then the job is defective and they should really come back and fix it - to fix it right it'll all have to be taken off and a new wax ring heat4ed and placed in place.

**Ken Massingale** · 06-16-2006, 04:31 AM

Chiz,
Same here. I didn't change the toilet or tank, but did change all the tank mounting hardware and internals with AS components. The rubber tank-to-bowl seal is huge in thickness. I tightened it till fearing breaking the tank and it still has movement. I've gone back twice to try to retighten but there is no more to get. The new seal is well over twice the thickness of the original, I don't see any way to get it tight enough to seat the tank body against the bowl body.
I know this doesn't help, but you aren't alone with the wobbly tank.
ken

**ironhat** · 06-16-2006, 07:04 AM

Yes, ken, that's the connection that I'm referring to. BTW, I appreciate your comments too, Loring. Anyway, I think that I might engineer a way to drop a block down behind the tank with a bit of Liquid Nails on it just to shore it up a bit. If either of you have a 1.6 gal toilet can you tell me if the tank actually empties when flushed? After a bit of thought (dangerous) it does seem that it is flushing the correct amount and the remainder is for pressure, not for the volume. Am I correct or not??

Thanks again, gents. I do find a bit of comfort in know that "I'm not alone' - LOL

**Ken Massingale** · 06-16-2006, 07:13 AM

Chiz,
No, the tank does not empty. But the flushing power is better than with the original tank components.
ken

**sacherjj** · 06-16-2006, 07:56 AM

If the floor has settled, there are also plastic shims you can put under the toilet edge to eliminate rocking before you tighten it down. Some plumbers just used coins. Make sure not to use anything that has a problem with moisture, obviously.

**TheRic** · 06-16-2006, 08:16 AM

The low flush ones do not empty like the old ones. If you are concerned turn off the water and pour in measured water. You will then know how much is being flushed.

Is the wobble from back to front or side to side?

Back to front. Tightening the bolts will not help that much.

Side to Side. Tightening the bolts should stop the wobble. I have not worked with that brand, but I normally can get most of the wobble out by tightening the bolts.

Sometimes the nut to the tank needs to be tightened more, not the nut to under the toilet. What could be happening is the bolt & nut is tight to the toilet, but the tank itself is moving around the bolt / washer / rubber gasket that is holding the tank (and keeping it from leaking).

**Russianwolf** · 06-16-2006, 09:08 AM

for the life of me, I have never understood why they don't make toilets with brass reinforments at the bolt holes......

Double check both sides of the nuts (assumming it is the double nut variety) holding the tank to the body. If those seem fine, then you may want to search a bit for a different gasket that is thinner and one sided bolts.

Yes, the water remaining in the tank is for preassure. I got it in my head when I had my condo to redo my bathroom. I thought it would be cool to have one of the victorian style toilets with the high mount tank. I looked around and found the kits were about $500.

I made a shelf between two studs with a hole in the middle and mounted my tank on top of it. I then used various pvc fittings to make a down tube that screwed into the tank and went to the body. then I made a wooden piece to clamp the tube to the body using the original gasket and bolts.

That extra 4 foot of pipe made for alot of added preassure, after reducing the water level as much as I could in the tank, it would still splash your hiny when you flushed.

Oh, my cost was about $30 for the conversion. I even spray painted the PVC with brass paint.

**Tom Miller** · 06-16-2006, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by ironhat

The handle pulls up on an egg-shaped ball on the inside to lift the tube and its seal.

The vertical position of that egg-shaped ball on the chain may be what varies the amount of flush. In installations I'm familiar with, the closer to the flapper that ball is, the more the tank will empty per flush. This ball (I hesitate to call it a float because it's not "the" float) keeps the flapper open as long as the water level is high enough to keep it floating.

Or did I misunderstand your description?

Originally posted by ironhat

*Tank top is not flat which is either a blessing, so that you can't clutter it or a curse, for the same reason.

Is that a design feature, or is the tank top supposed to be flat, but for some reason it's tilted?

Originally posted by ironhat

*The tank is so much smaller than the 5 gal tank that it replaces that there is a 3" gap to the wall.

It's also possible that the replacement is built to a different spec. I recall seeing different models that required different distances from the flange to the wall (12" vs. 14" comes to mind).

Regards,
Tom
P.S. Regarding a connection from the tank to the wall: I'd hesitate to solidly connect to both, but I wouldn't hesitate to attach a "bumber" to the wall behind the tank to keep someone from pushing back too hard and causing damage.

**JimD** · 06-16-2006, 03:19 PM

We had our house built in 1999 so all our toilets (5 for 2 people at this point) are 1.6 gallons. Ours are Elger Patriot model but all the water does not go out of the tank on ours either. As long as everything in the bowl goes out, I think enough water must be coming out of the tank. Ours flush pretty well. I did some research after hearing horror stories about 1.6 gallon toilets. The early ones may have been pretty bad but we have no real complaints about ours. They seem to flush as well as the ones that held twice as much water.

The foam type gasket between the tank and bowl will take a shape over time. I think your idea of tightening the nuts gradually has merit. The other thing you might want to do is to switch to a chrome plated brass water line. That would couple the tank pretty rigidly to the valve which should help reduce any movement. The rigid lines are a little harder to work with but not all that hard. I only put in 2 of the toilets in my house but did not have this trouble. I don't know if the gaskets of Elgers are different or if you were just a bit more careful about how much pressure you put on the tank bolts. I also did not use rigid lines but have in the past.

You do not apparently need my other tip but when the toilet is not real firmly in place by the bolts, caulking the toilet to the floor helps a lot. I like to caulk it anyway to keep crud from getting under the toilet.

I also like Fluid Master fill valves and flapper pieces. All my Elger's are upgraded at this point. I should have just put the pieces in before the install. The originals did not work well for very long. Hopefully your American Standard pieces will work better.

Jim

**ironhat** · 06-16-2006, 03:19 PM

Pretty clever of you, Mike. I'm always looking for money saving solutions too. For you, TheRic, the wobble is front to back and I was able to improve on it with another 3/4 turn today. It does seem to be settling in. And Tom, you didn't misunderstand at all. The top isn't flat as a design feature. I don't particularly like it but it sure has helped spruce up the bathroom. Of course, with the new cabinet over the toilet there's now plenty of storage. The wife has it all oranized now. We'lll see how long that lasts! You're right about the wall to flange differences between models. The other being a 5 gal tank was a huge difference. I also got to thinking about the wood behind the tank and how a sound bump would fradture the porcelain. I hadn't thought of supporting the edge of the lid which would disperse the force applied as well as it being a beefier part. Thanks for all the grat input, folks. I sure do appreciate it. Tomorrow the retirement home is having a picnic and the family is coming in to see Mom and Dad. I got the bath done just in time. Oh yea, added a bidet to the toilet. Nicer than we both thought, even without warm water.
Later,
Chiz

**Ken Massingale** · 06-16-2006, 04:22 PM

"Oh yea, added a bidet to the toilet. Nicer than we both thought, even without warm water."

CHIZ!
The bidet is for the ladies. Behave yourself.. :-D

**dwolsten** · 06-16-2006, 05:15 PM

I've installed two of these toilets in the past year. There seems to be some confusion here over whether your toilet is wobbling at the base or between the tank and bowl. I'll assume the latter. Basically, you need to tighten the bolts more. It seems kinda scary, because it looks like you'll crack the ceramic, but you have to center the tank, and then take turns tightening each side slightly so that the tank is actually resting on the bowl but not too tightly. You'll have to use a screwdriver to hold the bolts because after a certain amount of tightness you'll just be turning the bolts instead of only the nuts.

Personally, I don't think it's a great design, but everyone uses it and it seems to work.

As for a wobbly bowl, for that caulking can help, unless your floor is very uneven in which case you need shims.

**ironhat** · 06-16-2006, 07:09 PM

CHIZ!
The bidet is for the ladies. Behave yourself.. :-D[/quote]

Shhhh... I didn't tell that to the wifey!! He Heee - Woooo!! OK, TMI there - sorry.

Wobbly new toilet tank

Wobbly new toilet tank

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