Tablesaws and Wheelchairs

[JRMapes]

Goodmorning Folks,

I am have got a hair pulling quandry. Like most folks that are getting ready to buy a new Tablesaw I want to get something within my price range, that will fit my space, and will do what i want it to do. I don't plan on doing any fine woodworking. At best I will be building the occasional bookshelf, poarchswing, picnic table, or small side table. I will also be using the saw to cut trimwork and cut down plywood along with as SWMBO just reminded me, build her, her bird houses and flower boxes and the garden arbor i have been promising... Heh. Basically small projects indoor and out. My price range is around $400 with little wiggle room and my workshop space is limited (873 sq. feet shared space indoors with about 800 sq. ft. useable by me at any given time ) so I need something she can also help me move outdoors under the yard canopy when need be.
Now for the real kicker...

I am a paraplegic. I have no use of my legs and do all my work from a wheelchair. Prior to the chair I had extensive woodworking and carpentry training so i am familiar with the ins and outs but in the past recent years ive been working wood primarily as a "Neander." This also means that most all table saws stand almost 9" too high for me to safely use. This means that which ever saw i buy I will have to build a new stand that is the correct working height for me.

I have looked at numerous Bench Saws and narrowed it down to the Craftsman Jobsite Pro, the Rigid Jobsite, the Ryobi BTS20 and the Porter Cable. The Bosch 4000 is on the extreme end of my price range and I doubt it would be an option, but it sure looks like a good saw.

The Contractor Saws I have looked at are the Ryobi BT3100, Delta TS300 or TS350, SunnyHill SM-250A, the Harbor Freight 10" Pro, and the Grizzly G0444 (which is also in my extreme $$ range and at this point unlikely but if i could come up witht he money it would be my first choice). I would love to pick up a Powermatic or Jet but they are just out of my price range (or at least the ones i can find).

The bench saws are attractive to me because of weight and i dont have to worry about a motor hanging out the back and a special bench would be easier bacuse i wouldnt have to build with the motor so much in mind. On the other hand the idea of a screaming banshee TS with lots of vibration isnt really attractive to myself or SWMBO who would get annoyed easily with me using a very loud saw when shes trying to watch a movie.

A saw that i can either buy or fairly easily make and use attachable jigs on would be a real plus. I know many saws have offsized miter slots and cause headaches in these cases. I would like to avoid that if possible but it could be a workaround if it came down to it.

Any advice would be appreciated.... especially if any of you are or know a 4 wheeled woodworker that has got around these headeaches.

Thanks
JR Mapes
Arcadia, KS

[rbfunk]

JR, welcome to the BT3Central family. I'll bet you are going to get a lot of replies with good advice.
First of all, towards the bottom of the forums list is a link to The Able Workshop which has a lot of good advice.
I am going to let someone else sing the praises of the BT3. Most everybody is better then I am at describing it.
No matter what saw you buy, I hope you stick around, it's nice group of people.

[bigstick509]

Welcome to the best forum on the Net.

[Mainemarc]

Hi JR:

First, welcome to the forum. I hope no matter what saw you choose, you stick around, as we're more interested in the people and their work, and less about what equipment they use. I'd be very interested in hearing about some of your "neander" woodworking experiences, as I'm of that particular bent myself.

I don't know your exact layout, but going by your description of your situation, I'm hearing you say that you and your wife will need to move this saw between the indoors and outdoors. If that involves crossing thresholds, going up or down steps and/or ramps with tight corners, then I would say definitely stay away from any true contractor saw; it's too heavy and too unwieldy.

Now at the risk of raising the ire of my fellow forum members, I am also going to suggest that the BT3100 might not be the best choice either, given your particular needs. The saw can certainly be made mobile, but that takes some work and out of the box, the saw sits on the high side for a table saw. Plus, unlike some of the portable jobsite saws, the BT3100 does require some assembly, especially the base. It would be nice for you to have at least some safe functionality for your situation immediately.

Additionally, if you are among that category of saw owners who somehow would find things going out of alignment when you move them, then I think you would be an unhappy BT3100 owner, as frequently adjusting the rails and tables might become bothersome for someone with limited mobility.

Of the saws you mentioned, I'd give special consideration to the Bosch 4000, even though it is spendy. First of all, it's a very capable saw, with a very high quality direct drive motor with softstart and workload feedback circuitry. It has good dust collection and a decent enough fence for a bench top saw, along with an expandable table. It also is lightweight and comes with a very slick retractable mobile base that would make it easy for you and your wife to cart around. That being said, I have also heard good things about the Craftsman Jobsite Pro and the Ridgid, although I think the latter is quite heavy.

If there is any way to make a permanent home for your saw however, then all that I just said goes out the window. If you can get help building a special saw stand adapted to your needs (I'm thinking something a bit lower than the typical table saw, with clearance underneath so you can wheel yourself right up to it), then something like the BT3100 would be an excellent choice.

I'm sure folks here have lots of ideas. I hope you'll continue this discussion and I bet we can come up with something ideal for your needs.

[Popeye]

Welcome aboard Jr. Speaking of 4 wheelers, havn't seen Bill (Bill Stacks that is) in awhile. If he chimes in, he's the guy to talk to as he is our resident "Wheel Man". Pat

[Ken Weaver]

Welcome Jr - glad to have you. Marc raises a good point, a lot of the bench top tools would be perfect in your situation and can be kept on accessible counter tops in a shared space, but the table saw is problematic. Any chance of a dedicated space for it? Best you could do I think is to build/get a stand that would allow your chair side access, I think it would be very hard to get a table saw on something where you could actually wheel up under it. In other words I would worry that if you could get your chair under the stand, the height to the saw top would be difficult to manage. Being able to have access to the front and side of the saw seems to me would be more important than getting under it. What is your work style for your other tools?

You raise excellent questions and if you can, post a pic of your work area and I'll bet some good minds here could come up with some designs. Oh, did you look at the BTS15 - the portable with the sliding miter table? What was your reaction to that one?

[leehljp]

JR,
One of our own members, "DUD", or Bill Stacks does a lot of his work from a wheelchair. He can stand and walk some, but his legs give out suddenly, so he gets around in a wheel chair mostly. He does a lot of carpentry work from the wheel chair too. He uses a BT3100. I have forgotten what he did to the height of the saw - if it is the same or if he lowered it. He likes the saw so much that he has repaired it with a rebuilt motor rather than go to another saw.

Check him out here and email him. He is on the forum for a while and then out with work; he has had some health problems lately too.
http://www.bt3central.com/forum/pop_...=display&id=32

[JRMapes]

Thanks for the help and the welcome.

Yup, I am familar with the Able Workshop, Have been a memebr there for quite soem time. Unfortunately the traffic there has dwindled to barely a trickle.

My neandering isnt that great but gets the job done, slowly... heh. I have a decent selection of planes,chisles,knives, and saws that were handed down from my Grandad and Dad. Mostly all ive done is build small shelves and picture frames, crafts stuff here and there. My Granddads and Dad taught me how to use handtools when i was growing up. I was pretty lucky. All three were carpenters/cabinetmakers and mechanics. My dad was also a draftsman, which he started me out early in as well. Has came in handy as well doing my own plans instead of shelling out money.


The Bench saws look good,especially the Bosch and PC... easier to adjust, table sizes, blade changes, some that have the arbor locks would sure make life easier. I have never really used banch saws taht much before, prior to the chair all i ever mainly used was contractor and cabinet saws. I guess i am just a bit leary of the stories i have heard about so many of them being so loud, vibrating like a cheap hotel magic fingers bed, and flimsy made, especially the trunion assembly and fences. The Craftsman and Rigid I have heard mixed reviews on but seem ok although heavy... but weight isnt necessarily a bad thing with good mobile carts and if they hold alignment well since they are designed to be ported around.

I wish there was a way to get a perminent home for a saw at this time but it just isnt going to happen anytime soon. My normal work space is jsut a bit bigger than 8'x12' on a good day. Usually i do my work out of doors depending on weather of course. Then ive got 600+ sq. ft. shop called my driveway... heh.

I dont think wheelin up under a saw would be good at all. Considering my lap is at the 27" mark. Side/Front access works. I can easily pull up with the machinry to my left and get good access. I had a left leg amputation a while back and without a foot rest on the left it makes getting up things very easy. Which is also a bad thing... when me and SWMBO got together she found out that i can cook and could get up to the stove and so i have to do most of the cooking now... heh.

Bout the only things i pull up to head on is the scroll saw and the band saw.

I looked at the BTS15 at HD. It seemed very flimsy and the slide tabel was rough moving... of course this WAS a display model... who knows how some kid threw it together.The BTS20 seemd to be a bit beefier and i have heard a lot fo good things about it. But the extra short distance from table front to blade really bothers me. Is there that much difference between the 15 and 20 aside from the slider?

I really liked the 3100, it would have to be shortened though. I have heard though that it can get out of alignment pretty easy if you mov eit around a lot. That is something that i have to carefullt take into consideration, the moving around. The saw will be coming in and out of the house a lot, granted the threshholds are pretty smooth and the ramp is only 20 inches long... solid sheet not 5/4 decking. Then it just depends on if i set up on the sidewalk or all the way over to the driveway. that move from sidewalk to drive way is not a smooth one.

Thanks a lot folks!

[AAJIII]

Hello JR and WELCOME,

There is only one aspect of you inquiry that I feel I can address with any degree of confidence.

It is true that if you take the BT3100 and toss it into the back of a truck and move it from jobsite to jobsite that it will not stay in alignment. On the other hand, the saw mounted to a solid mobile base and wheeled in and out of your house given the conditions you mentioned should not cause any misalignment of the settings. I worked that way for over a year and never had to realign the saw.

[dlminehart]

I'd suggest you look at the mobile stand Rod Kirby made for this BT3000 (it's basically like a small dressor with casters, onto which the BT3000 is bolted). This gives storage space easily accessible from a wheel chair, plus lets you determine the height of the saw. You can see it in the Articles section of this forum, under the heading of mobile stands, I believe.

I have a friend who has the Bosch benchtop, and he's happy with it. I've also read that at least an earlier version (maybe it's been fixed) had trouble holding a height setting. Not a problem for simple cutting, but deadly for dadoes and rabbets, which require a groove of constant depth. The direct drive means its likely to be less precise than the BT3100, and it probably doesn't come with as good a blade. More oriented toward carpentry and bouncing around in the back of a pickup, in other words.

[John Hunter]

JR Mapes,

Welcome to the board. You are right about the BTS15 I would not recommend it. The BT3100 will take moving on wheels without loss of alignment. The main thing would be your accessibility to it and I will have to defer to others on that.

[Ken Weaver]

I have my 3100 on a HTC mobile base and I move back and forth to the drive frequently without taking it out of alignment. If your <s>garage</s> errr, shop can take the 3100 footprint, that may be a good solution. The HTC is easy to get up on its wheels and the LOYL could move it without any problem. You could even jury rig a reaching tool to let you engage the wheels from your chair. You may need some help changing the SMT around, I keep my SMT turned around "backwards" when I'm not actually using the SMT, it lets me work closer to the table. Also, if you do decide on the 3100, I would definitely get Lee's Sharkguard to go with it. Working with your body sideways to the table is not a time to fool with the stock pawls and you certainly don't want to encourage kickback by not using a guard. Just my $.02.

[JRMapes]

Thanks for all the input.

I have got it narrowed down to one of these five.
Benchtop in order of favor:

Porter Cable
Craftsman Jobsite Pro
Rigid Jobsite

Contractor/Hybrid in no order:

BT3100
Craftsman Hybrid 22104 (if i can afford it)

Now it will be just a matter of deciding. The hard part... heh.
I already have plans for making or modifying bases as need be to suit my needs for each saw. I dont see any problems there.

One thing i didnt mention earlier is that i only have one footrest to contend with and it is on the right side, plus it is removable as well. One thing for sure that regardless of the set up there wont be any pulling straight up to the saw to work. That would more often than not put me in direct line with the blade. I may be crazy but I am no fool.

[Ken Weaver]

quote:Originally posted by JRMapes

I may be crazy but I am no fool.

Then no matter which you choose you'll be fine. Again welcome aboard and be sure to post pics of your projects. I believe you'll enjoy it here.

[DrChas]

One thing I have done when trying to figure out how to design something is to make it out of cardboard boxes, strapping lumber and duct tape. I might suggest finding or making boxes that are about the same dimensions as the saws and seeing what works. set up the cardboard "saw" and see if you can reach everything. Be especially aware of where the switch is located (although a remote switch might be a possibility).

Be aware that some of them (the BT3100) have lots of do-dads hanging off that might be an issue. Example: if you end up adjusting the rails at every cut so you can be on different sides of the saw that will be a problem. On the other hand, the huge flexibility of the BT might make it easier to get the perfect setup.