HELP - dead Live Oak Trees - usable?

[MilDoc]

The beautiful trees on my property succumbed to oak wilt. 20+ trees in all, DEAD. Rest treated today with Alamo in attempt to save them.

These are all Live Oaks. I know they can be used in the fireplace, but - can any of the wood be salvaged for woodwork???

I know that "spalted" woods are those infected with fungus etc. Oak wilt is a fungus. IF I can save some for projects, any suggestions??

Need to know within a week before the chainsaws get busy! Thanks!

[dwolsten]

quote:Originally posted by MilDoc

The beautiful trees on my property succumbed to oak wilt. 20+ trees in all, DEAD. Rest treated today with Alamo in attempt to save them.

These are all Live Oaks. I know they can be used in the fireplace, but - can any of the wood be salvaged for woodwork???

I know that "spalted" woods are those infected with fungus etc. Oak wilt is a fungus. IF I can save some for projects, any suggestions??

Need to know within a week before the chainsaws get busy! Thanks!

I can't tell you whether your particular trees are usable or not, but what I do know of Live Oaks is that they're an endangered species, and as such are quite illegal to chop down (if they're still alive that is). Because of this, I imagine it's nearly impossible to find any live oak lumber for sale anywhere, so if this wood is at all usable, it might be extremely valuable. Even if not, any furniture you make with it would be extremely unique.

[monte]

Check your area for someone with a portable sawmill. They can give you some good advise as well as turn the logs into usable lumber.

[LCHIEN]

quote:Originally posted by dwolsten
...

I can't tell you whether your particular trees are usable or not, but what I do know of Live Oaks is that they're an endangered species, and as such are quite illegal to chop down (if they're still alive that is). Because of this, I imagine it's nearly impossible to find any live oak lumber for sale anywhere, so if this wood is at all usable, it might be extremely valuable. Even if not, any furniture you make with it would be extremely unique.

I was surprised to read this. I looked up (Wikipedia seemed to have the most info on live oaks.)

Live oak

quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


Live oak is a common name for a number of unrelated oaks in several different sections of the genus Quercus that happen to share the character of evergreen foliage.

The name live oak comes from the fact that evergreen oaks are still green and "live" in winter, when other oaks are dormant, leafless and "dead"-looking. The name is used mainly in North America, where evergreen oaks are widespread in warmer areas, along the Atlantic coast from Virginia to Florida, west along the Gulf Coast to Texas and across the southwest to California and southwest Oregon.

Evergreen oak species are also common in the warmer parts of Europe and Asia, and are included in this list for the sake of completeness. These species, although not having "live" in their common names in their countries of origin, are colloquially called live oaks when cultivated in North America.

When the term live oak is used in a specific rather than general sense, it most commonly refers to the Southern live oak (the first species so named), but can often refer to other species regionally.

In Texas, a small grove of live oaks (Texas live oak or Southern live oak) is known as a mott.

I believe Mildoc probably has Texas live oaks, being in Texas.
They're plentiful and I don't think, endangered and definately not illegal to use for lumber. In his case they are dead anyway he says.
The problem with Live oaks, especially those growing wild with low competition from surrounding trees, is that they have low, spreading branches with a lot of forks. I'm not sure you can get long enough runs to make good lumber.


Because they live quite long, upwards of 1000 years, and have these huge majestic spreads, live oak trees can become famous in Texas either as landmarks or meeting places and some special specimens have become endangered when faced with urban problems and vandalism. A few famous texas Oak trees:
http://www.texasescapes.com/TexasHis...toricTrees.htm

Maybe that's what the poster was referring to.

[Jim-Iowa]

I would agree with Monte, Check with local saw mills.
My biggest objection to working with dead trees is widowmakers(dead limbs falling out and bouncing off your head while felling)(a guy could wake up dead that way).
Other than that if the tree is not hollow and has usable lumber I can see no reason not to use it.
As you mentioned spalting can add character and is prized by wood turners. Though one should be cautious about inhaling the dust.
My clearest memory of live oak is the one at the Alamo in San Antonio. And as was stated there were so many spreading branches that the wood might be somewhat difficult to work, but all the swirls around the knots should make for some very interesting and pretty wood.

[JR]

Live oaks are very common hereabouts, one of the few indigenous species we have. If you try to cut one down in my town, living or dead, the local officials can be VERY unhappy.

In the upper part of this pic is a stand (mott?) of Coastal Live Oak, as seen from the deck on my house.

[lago]

We have oak wilt around here and I can't recall the precautions that need to be taken to keep it from spreading. I would think that if the bark is removed, it may not be a problem.

I have access to some live oaks that were knocked down by Claudette last year. The roots are still intact and the tree is still alive. We had a cluster of 3 trees that were toppled and we were able to get about 8 cords of firewood.

I am thinking about this last one for woodworking. I was told there was a sawmill somewhere around Victoria but you have to haul the wood to them. Lucky me, have a BIL with a tractor w/front loader and a trailer.

As far as being endangered, I haven't heard about that here in Texas. We tried to pass a local tree ordinance to preserve trees because a lot of builders come in and clear cut the lot before building. Builders must have had more influence because the city council didn't pass the ordinance. Guess what, 3 did not get re-elected this year and 3 more to go on the next election.

Ken

[dwolsten]

quote:Originally posted by JR

Live oaks are very common hereabouts, one of the few indigenous species we have. If you try to cut one down in my town, living or dead, the local officials can be VERY unhappy.

Maybe I was confused about them being endangered, but this thing about the local officials is also the case in Gulfport, MS. I know of a commercial building contractor that got their license yanked by the city because they cut down some Live Oaks.

[JR]

Well, in my town homeowners can be fined for touching an oak tree without considerable negotation with the city.

Builders can be fined for similar infractions. It is always a negotiated part of any building permit that significant oaks must be protected, the buildings to be built around them. If a tree must be taken out for some reason, it has to be replaced with three others.

A landowner in Ojai, CA (pronounced o-hi) was sent to jail for taking out oaks! This guy, a successful man but raised in a foreign country, apparently could not conceive that a wealthy landowner could not do as he pleased. He tore out about 300 oaks after having been told he couldn't do it. Then he refused to pay the fines. They locked him up!

We take our oaks seriously around these parts, pardner.

JR

[BobSch]

quote:Originally posted by JR

Well, in my town homeowners can be fined for touching an oak tree without considerable negotation with the city.

Builders can be fined for similar infractions. It is always a negotiated part of any building permit that significant oaks must be protected, the buildings to be built around them. If a tree must be taken out for some reason, it has to be replaced with three others.

A landowner in Ojai, CA (pronounced o-hi) was sent to jail for taking out oaks! This guy, a successful man but raised in a foreign country, apparently could not conceive that a wealthy landowner could not do as he pleased. He tore out about 300 oaks after having been told he couldn't do it. Then he refused to pay the fines. They locked him up!

We take our oaks seriously around these parts, pardner.

JR

So you've only got 700 left?

[MilDoc]

I appreciate the info. The arborist has finished injecting the "good" trees with Alamo so hopefully they will survive 'tho 2 don't look too good.

That leaves 29 that are dead/dying and have to be removed. A few are just scrub trees, not worth much other than as firewood. But many are 18-20" doameter with good straight trunks up to 12' tall.

So, if I can salvage these, do I just let them dry for a year or two? Do I resaw them (with lung protection) then let dry? Either way, should the ends be sealed? I know oak tends to twist/warp when drying, but after paying $4,000 for treatment and another $4,300 for removal, plus the cost of some replacement trees, I can't quite afford a sawyer or kiln drying.

Any advice much appreciated!

[JR]

quote:Originally posted by MilDoc

but after paying $4,000 for treatment and another $4,300 for removal, plus the cost of some replacement trees, I can't quite afford a sawyer or kiln drying.

Sounds like you answered your own question! Gotta leave 'em be. I forget how long wood takes to dry, something like an inch of thickness per year. Might be awhile before they're ready to be used, but if you've got the space....

JR

[JimD]

MilDoc,

I had an oak tree die on my property because it got crowded out by two larger oaks. Part of it rotted and fell on the roof so I took the rest of the top part out of the tree. What is left is a trunk a dozen or so feet tall and about a foot in diameter. I investigated having it milled into lumber but haven't done so yet - it is still standing at this point. I had some success identifying people with bandsaw mills nearby that would come to my property and cut the wood up here. The price was not bad, I just haven't gone to the effort of making the arrangements. All I did was do a google search on band saw mills, identified the companies that supply them, then went to their websites and one or more had a referral service to get work for the people who bought their mills. Wouldn't hurt to get a price.

I think the wood would be better if you end seal it and if you have it milled into boards to dry. If that's too much expense right now (and it seems like you've had considerable already) you could try just end sealing with parafin or special paint.

I do not have access at the moment but it seems like one of the magazines laying around my recliner has an article on oak wood and, if I remember correctly, it indicates live oaks are particularly dense. That would make the wood heavy but would not preclude it's use.

Jim

[dedaddy]

I had to remove a 30" diameter red oak from my yard. I had the trunk cut into two 8' and one 14' lengths. A sawyer came in and cut them up into 4/4 lumber. I got over 800 board feet of clear red oak. I had it sawn up the day after it was cut down. I stacked the lumber up and stickered it all within a few days. It has dried for almost two years now and I have been using it in projects.

To dry it, I would advise getting it sawn asap since oak will dry very unevenly as a trunk. If you can't get it sawn into lumber right away, seal the ends of the logs as soon as they are cut.

Seal the ends of the boards with almost anything that is water proof. I used some left over polyurethane. Stacking with stickers will keep things from warping. There are web sites out there somewhere that show how the stacking is done. The sawyer will know. He can cut stickers for you from the scrap.

Be prepared to lose about 25-35% of the wood as unusable. It makes good firewood when dry.

You can stack the boards outside off the ground if you cover them with a tarp or a roof. The first few months they give off a lot of moisture that contains some kind of acid that will eat any metal not protected. I found this out because I stacked the wet lumber in my garage and everything had rusted in there within a month.

Unless you need long boards, I do not advise having a trunk more than 6-8' long. Longer it gets so heavy that it takes an army of mules to move the thing onto the saw frame. Also, a 14'x14"x1" green board weighs 100+ lbs. Make sure you got plenty of people to move material. Those sawmills can cut off a board that size in less than a minute.

The oak sap contains sugars that attract fungus. The boards look awful but clean up nice. This fungus is on the surface and did not cause any spalting.

Pay a little more in time and get the sawyer to cut some of the trunks as quarter sawn boards. It creates more waste but that makes the best looking furniture and cabinet frames.

Good luck.

[LCHIEN]

live oak is a pretty dense wood.
Because of the density and the nature of live oaks where there is often a large trunk split a few feet from the ground, naval shipbuilders would love to use live oak for the wooden sailing vessels in the 1700-1800's. The Y-pieces they would cut from the crotch would make great side beams/ deck supports.
The famous USS Constitution known as "Old Ironsides" was built from American Live Oak and was so tough that during battles, cannon balls were observed to bounce off the sides rather than penetrate the hull, thus the nickname.

At one time the U.S. Navy actually had large forests of Live Oaks in the Southeast United States in a strategic reserve to build wooden frigates, but eventually gave them up.