Buying a table saw

[Ishmel]

Hi All! I've been lurking here for a while, and finally decided to come right out and ask my question. I know how loyal you all are to your BT3's so I'm really looking forward to hearing your responses on my issue. Here's the setup and the question:

I share my shop with an SUV and a Mini van, snowblower, riding lawn mower, assorted hoses, rakes, shovels, several bikes etc, etc. ad infinium....... So I have extremely limited space. I've decided that I'm just going to have to make due with a benchtop tablesaw. With that in mind, I've built a rolling workbench (26" X 59") with adjustable shelves on both ends and both sides (plans from "Family Handyman") My thought is that I can use one of the end shelves for mounting the TS, thus having the length of the worktop for an outfeed table. So here's my question - Do I go with a BTS15 or the BTS20R?

My hobby has me building bookshelves, entertainment centers, small projects for gifts and "home improvement" type work. Most of cutting right now is done with a circular saw, so anything will be an improvement. I know this site is about the BT3, but since I'm unfamilar with Ryobi, I thought you fellas (and ladies) could probably give me some good advice.

Thanks in advance -

d

[JimD]

If you can possibly make it work, I would still go with a BT3000 (rebuilt from Cummins for about $200) or BT3100 new from HD for $300. They could me mounted as you describe as long as your bench can accomidate the rails (The rails can be easily detached if they get in the way, it's just move two levers for each rail and slide them off). The BT3xs are compact saws, like a benchtop saw, but with a lot more capability.

Jim

[leehljp]

The very thing that you want to do "building bookshelves, entertainment centers, small projects for gifts " is where the BT3x00 is superior to the other models. I used to make things like that with a well tuned Sears contractors saw, but it was also my habit to sand or plan edges after a cut. This has been basically eliminated with the BT3x00.

Your workbench should be just the right size to set or mount the BT 3x00; just leave the leg kit off.

[Ishmel]

Thanks for the advice guys. I actually have been doing the "amatuer" cabinet stuff for a few years now with the limited equiptment I already have. I do have to sand and plane a some, of course, but I don't mind that type of work. One of my additional concerns with the 3X models is the weight. I have to be able to take that baby off of the stand and store it each time I'm done with it. If that were the only concern I could buy a 40 pound delta, but I'm looking for a reliable brand name also. I don't know much about Ryobi, but reading this site has gone a long ways to convincing me that they build a good product.

From what I've seen of the "lesser" models. (BTS15 and 20R) they are made with good materials, and I believe the 15 actually uses the same fence system. The question for me really becomes the value of the sliding miter table.

Again, I really appreicate your input.

[Knottscott]

I don't own the BT3100, but would look for one through Cummins over the BTS15 or BTS20. Either that or find a good used contractor saw and put it on your mobile workbench. The 15 and 20 are typical direct drives with a universal motor and not alot to offer in precision or longevity.

[LCHIEN]

the BT3 is miles ahead of the '10 and '20 in terms of precision cutting.

[gimpy]

Ishmel, welcome to the site. It's a great site, even for someone like me, who doesn't even own a table saw, much less a bt3100, which I wish I did own. So, sorry, I can't help you with your decision.
The reason I am writing this, though, is to refer you to the "ryobi power tool forum" in the links site farther down the "forums" list. Sorry for posting this if you have already looked there. But I thought it might have more owners of the bt15 and 20 posting on it than this site.

good luck, Frank

[drumpriest]

I agree with Loring, the 3100 is a VERY good saw, especially for cabinet making and the like for DIY'er. The sliding table is nice, I personally like the fact that it's belt driven, increases accuracy.

If you can get a 3000 or 3100, it'll do a great job for you. I was amazed after my first cut didn't need cleaned up or jointed for a panel glue-up (which was good, as I joint with a router table).

As to sliding table of a 15 vs. a 20r, you can always make a cross cut sled that'll do the job for you (or several, as needs be).

[Ishmel]

Thanks for the advice! I can't tell you all how tempted I am by the rebuilt deal at Cummin's, but I just don't have the room for that much table. I've posted on the Ryobi Power tools forum, and will hopefully get some additional information there. Right now I'm leaning towards the 20r, even though I don't need the portable stand - I was thinking same thing about making sleds vs. having the sliding table.

Anyone know if those portable stands can be interchanged with other saws? Just thinking maybe I could sell it........

Thanks again,

d

[DaveinFloweryBranchGA]

Ishmel,

After reading through your posts and getting a good idea on what it is you're looking to do with the saw, I would strongly advise you to go with the BT3K. By the time you build the sled you mention and other items, I suspect you'll be taking up about as much room as the BT3K.

The BT3K can be made mobile fairly easily and can also be broken down into it's component parts, taken off the stand and stored out of the way. But frankly, I suspect if you put wheels on it, you'll be able to move it out of the way without removing it from the stand.

I originally bought mine because I had a spare bedroom I was using as a workshop to make small wooden "doodads" to sell when I was unemployed. The room was 10 X 10 feet and I had the BT3K, a 14" bandsaw, a 16 speed floor model drill press and a 14 X 40" lathe in there. So it's possible to use and store quite a few tools in a small area, if you plan carefully.

The difference in capability between the BT3K and the other saws you mention is pretty substantial, especially if you are considering doing any sort of fine woodworking and want accurate cuts. There is an article on this website about why one should buy the BT3K over the other saws. You should read that before making your purchase decision.

The deciding factor for me when buying a new tool is wether or not that tool will significantly increase my capabilities over the tools I currently have. I think if you thoroughly investigate what it is you're trying to accomplish and what you need to do that, you'll find the tool you need to upgrade from your power saw is the BT3K.

[Mainemarc]

quote:Originally posted by Ishmel

I've built a rolling workbench (26" X 59") with adjustable shelves on both ends and both sides (plans from "Family Handyman") My thought is that I can use one of the end shelves for mounting the TS, thus having the length of the worktop for an outfeed table.
. . .
One of my additional concerns with the 3X models is the weight. I have to be able to take that baby off of the stand and store it each time I'm done with it.
. . .
The question for me really becomes the value of the sliding miter table.

Hi Ishmel:

You’re probably beginning to think that we’re some kind of cult the way we’re pushing the BT3x00 over your proposed alternatives. It's just that the BT3x00 really is a breed apart from those other saws and your references to cabinetry and other furniture related projects is a big warning signal to many of us that you might be about to make a mistake.

First, I’m not sure where you’re coming from with your concern about the weight of the BT3x00 and having to move/store it. Your initial idea of mounting the saw to one of the shelf ends of a mobile worktable and using the top surface as an out feed table is a really good one. Exactly when/why would you need to move the saw off this sort of arrangement?

But if you’re really concerned about a separate mobile stand/storage solution for the BT3x00, consider WIT’s brilliant answer pictured in this recent thread:
http://www.bt3central.com/forum/topi...ms=,hand,truck

Second, until you’ve used it, it’s hard to appreciate just what an improvement the sliding miter table (SMT) is over the tiny miter gauge found on almost any bench top table saw. More than almost any other feature, the SMT will make a vast difference in the accuracy of your cuts.

Finally, it’s a mistake to consider the SMT-equipped BTS15 as some sort of less expensive version of the BT3x00. The arbor mount, the belt-drive transmission and the blade elevation mechanisms on the BT3x00 are all very different and better engineered than those on the cheaper Ryobi. And while the BTS15 has an expandable table surface, it isn’t user-configurable the way it is with the BT3x00’s sliding rails and accessory tables.

I guess the last thing you should consider is that you've probably noticed that not many of us can give you any direct advice on the BTS15 or 20. I think that's because most of us who have purchased the BT3100 since those less expensive models have been available have examined the choices and independently came to the same conslusion: buying the BTS15/20 is probably a false economy.

[Ishmel]

Mainemarc and all:

Thank you very much for all of your great input. You are right, I have felt from time to time like I stubbled on to a BT3 cult. And honestly, if I hadn't read some of the other area's of the forum, I would problably be more inclined to keep thinking that and move on. As it is however, I realize that there are a lot of quality woodworkers posting to this site, and that most of you really do want to help each other out. I am therefore inclined to believe that you really are trying to help me, and for that I am grateful.

I have decided to rule out the BT15 and 20 for the reasons you've stated. Due to budget constraints however, I'm going to try to get a BT3000 from Cummins, they're having a sale nearby this weekend. That said, any advice on the 3000 would be greatly appreicated.

Thanks again,

d

[Mainemarc]

Hi Ishmel:

Well of course we really are trying to help! (Even though we do get a toaster oven from Ryobi for every new woodworker we "turn". Kidding! I'm just kidding! Geez.....)

If you can get it refurbished at Cummins, it's an outstanding deal for $200. In all likelihood, it'll be nearly pristine and will have been checked over even more carefully than the factory new ones. And regardless of what the flyer says, if they have any available on their truck, chances are it'll be a refurbished BT3100, not a refurbished BT3000.

If you do get the saw, and you do mount it on your mobile worktable, I happen to know someone named WoodRook who'd be very interested in a couple of parts to your metal stand.

Whatever you decide, please feel free to take part in these forums.

[DonHo]

You might try asking them if they'll take less to the saw. I bought a refurb BT3100 from Cummins last year. No problems at all and on the advice of another forum member I ask and I received, They knocked off $25. Of course the price then was $245, so maybe they won't come down off $200. Can't hurt to try though.
DonHo