How would you cut this?

[lcm1947]

This seems so elementary I'm almost embarrassed to ask but what the hay, here goes. I being very new to using a table saw and very aware of what can happen if you don't know what you are doing thought I'd ask this question. I will be cutting plywood that's lets say is 27" x 27" and need to cut off 1" of one of the sides to make it 27"x26"'s. Would you stand behind the left side of the saw like you normally do or in this case stand behind the right side? To me standing on the right would allow you to control the board better against the fence but since this is the kickback side ( between blade and the fence ) I'm confused. Any comments would be welcomed.

[Ken Weaver]

You can do it from either side, as long as you keep the wider piece between the blade and the fence. Remember you can slide the rails to either side to get the 26" width and then move the fence to that side.

[WEG]

Hi lcm947;

You can also stand beside the saw and not in front of the piece and push it through. Since it's pretty big, 27x27, you could push just by hand keeping away from the blade of course (like I had to tell you that ) but better use a Gripper or push pad. You would start the cut from the front and as it gets about half way into the blade walk to the side and continue the cut. Start with the piece as square to the fence as you can and be smooth with a little force into the fence (without twisting the wood)and forward motion. You don't have to be a bull, you don't have to force the cut, the saw blade should be sharp and will cut just fine. Don't force it. I also would raise the blade just enough to cut the wood, maybe a tooth cap showing above (1/8 - 1/4 inch?) IF you happen to get "kickback" the wood won't get you. It will most likely go over the top of the blade spinning out of control and landing on the floor in front of the saw! It's not nearly as violent as a real nice kickback with the blade higher and the wood something like a 2/4! Do I sound like this has happened to me?? Maybe once...

Hope this helps you out. The main thing to keep in mind is try to picture what will happen before you do the cut and if it isn't going like you thought it would as you are cutting, don't force finish it or bull through...stop pushing, hold steady and shut down! Usually this helps get your pulse and blood pressure under control as well Also, ask the questions, there are no stupid ones, but some of these answers...whew (I mean mine!)
WEG

[lcm1947]

Thanks guys and Weg so it would be OK to stand in front of the wood until the wood is half way into the blade before having to move to the side? So I assume then that kickback doesn't happen until the wood is at least half way beyond the blade then? Sorry for pushing the point but I don't want to misunderstand. And thanks for the lenghty reply. Got a lot of good stuff out of it, very helpful.

[Jim-Iowa]

sounds alright to me. Only accident I had with a saw was ripeing thin strips form a pine board on a radial Arm saw.
strip broke at a knot and took all hide off second knuckle of my pinkie on righthand. With plywood that should not happen.

But it is always best to ask if your not sure!! And Err on the side of safety!

[JimD]

I would stand in front of the plywood where I could guide it through the cut the best. Concentrate on the interface of the plywood with the rip fence, not so much on the interface of the plywood with the blade. If you hold the wood tight to the rip fence, you will get no kickback. If you hold the big piece of plywood firmly, if it tried to kick back you would stall the saw before it could throw the wood.

Kickback, IMHO, is something to think hard about on smaller pieces when there is a better chance you could get misaligned with the rip fence. I've never had a big piece of plywood even seriously attempt to come back at me. I would feel different if I was using a big cabinet saw with a 5 hp motor but with the BT3100 or contractors saws with 1 or 1 1/2 hp induction motors, the saw should not be able to overcome the grip of an adult who is paying attention. Regardless of what you think about your ability to overpower the saw, the best assurance against kickback is to guide the wood through the saw properly (and use the splitter). If you do that, the rest of what you do will not matter. Sacrificing your ability to guide the piece to get your body into a "safer" position does not make sense to me.

Jim

[LarryG]

JimD beat me to the punch, saying almost exactly what I was going to say. With a workpiece this large, and this type of cut, there's very little chance of kickback if you maintain control of the workpiece by keeping it firmly against the fence and down against the table -- and the best place to stand to do that is immediately in front of the workpiece. Standing off to one side will only lessen your control and increase the risk rather than reduce it.

[WEG]

OK, OK, I give up. But I still will move to the side, starting in front, when I'm ripping something like a 27x27 sheet rather than stay in front. I can better control the piece all the way through (keeping it along the fence) to keep the blade from chewing the last few inches of the panel and I'm not reaching across the blade and I have better control when the piece is coming off the saw table and onto my worktable behind the saw (there is a gap here due to the SMT space required). This is especially true if the panel is thin and may bend down and hit the outfeed table. Sooooo....that's why . Remember, this is for those large (medium?)27x27 panels, not giant panels like 4x4 foot things.
But I could be wrong...to each their own.

WEG

[Woodnut]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned that this might not be the best way to trim off a bit of plywood...

I hope I am not going to be called a radical here by suggesting that this is not the best method to consider in the first place.

Consider using what is some timed called a "shooter-board".

It takes a few minutes to set up, and really helps to build a dedicated sawing table (instructions are also on the same site) but it will pay for itself oh so many times over in benefits.

[Ken Weaver]

quote:Originally posted by Woodnut

I'm surprised that no one mentioned that this might not be the best way to trim off a bit of plywood...

I hope I am not going to be called a radical here by suggesting that this is not the best method to consider in the first place.

Consider using what is some timed called a "shooter-board".

It takes a few minutes to set up, and really helps to build a dedicated sawing table (instructions are also on the same site) but it will pay for itself oh so many times over in benefits.

Randall has a good point, but I don't think 27" is that large, the BT table should be able to handle it fine. Still, using something like he suggests is a good addition to your set of shop tools and techniques.

[LCHIEN]

I'm going to go off here a little and say I would very likely cut
rip off 1" less the blade kerf againt the rip fence.

I could move my unextended rails to the right to do it and would do so if I have several pieces to do.

But given a one-off I would do this:

measure the board (you said 27")

subtract 1" to get to 26" desired finished width and add .100 or 3/32 to allow for the kerf.
Now you will have 26" left when you cut off the strip.

Set the fence for the 1" less 3/32 or 29/32" from the blade.

Now for the safety part. I use a "sacrificial" push block for thin rips. This is a piece of 2x4 (maybe 8-12 " long) on edge.
I'll tack a small piece of scrap on the trailing edge that hangs down a fraction of an inch to catch the end of the wood.
Set the blade so it is ~1/4-1/2" above the workpiece.

Now start the saw, use the left hand to hold and push the left side of the wood. You'll want to push forward with just a little rightwards pressure to keep it against the fence. Start far enough back so that the edge is against the rip fence before it gets to the blade. You'll probably also need to hold the left end up to support it as pu'll be pushiung down some on the right.

With the rigth hand hold the push block we made earlier. Use the trailing edge piece to catch the end of the plywood and push it forwards. Use both hands in unison to kepp the wood from racking and parallel to the fence, remember to put a little rightwards pressure from the left hand to keep it against the fence.
You should have place the push block abou 1-1/2" from the right so that it is centered over the blade. The blade will cut into the bottom of this. As the block moves over the table use it to hold the wood to the table. continue pushing forward until block is past the blade. having used it to hold down the wood will keep the slim cutoff freom shooting backwards, which it might do if you lift the block before the workpiece clears the blade.


incidentally true kickbacks are not a 1x27" cutoff shooting back in this situation. A true kickback, the kind that injures people,
is when you have a square cutoff, usually around 3-6" squarish trapped between the blade and the fence. In that case, the rear will lift and jam between the blade and the fence, it will then be picked up and the teeth will gouge the bottom of this as it slings the cutoff with great velocity and spin back at you.

[lcm1947]

WOW! thanks for the help guys. I learned a lot and feel much better about doing the cut. That's what makes this forum so neat because of people like you guys. I for one really appreciate it. Glad to hear that it's the smaller pieces of wood that I really need to worry about kick-back wise too. I just got to say a special thanks to LCHIEN for that extremely helpful and lenghty reply not that I didn't appreciate everybodys input. I got something from them all. Thank you.