What did I do wrong (router kickback)??

[axio]

In this case, where should the pressure be applied? If you place a featherboard, where should it go -- before or after the feed, or where the bit is at? Should you also apply pressure with your hand to the workpiece on the outfeed side so it's flat against the fence?

[Passfan]

I usually wear gloves when feeding wood into my machines. I take size medium leather with the rienforced palm from home depot. It helps me avoid splinters and nicks and dings. Perhaps they would have protected you this time.

[LarryG]

quote:Originally posted by axio

In this case, where should the pressure be applied? If you place a featherboard, where should it go -- before or after the feed, or where the bit is at? Should you also apply pressure with your hand to the workpiece on the outfeed side so it's flat against the fence?

In this PARTICULAR case, you'd treat it the same as a jointer, applying pressure to hold the workpiece against the infeed fence until enough of it has cleared the bit and pressure can be gradually shifted to the outfeed side.

Otherwise, the pressure can (and should) go anywhere and everywhere. I rig featherboards to hold the workpiece against the fence on both the infeed and outfeed side of the bit, and sometimes above the workpiece to hold it down onto the table.

If the workpiece is large enough to safely and securely hold, I may not use featherboards at all. Also, note that if the workpiece moves away from the fence, the only result is a less-deep cut, so you can just back up and try again. IOW, the workpiece won't be ruined.

[Black wallnut]

There are drawbacks to using feather boards while jointing with a router. If the pressure is not set perfect then you may get snipe.

[Black wallnut]

quote:Originally posted by Passfan

I usually wear gloves when feeding wood into my machines. I take size medium leather with the rienforced palm from home depot. It helps me avoid splinters and nicks and dings. Perhaps they would have protected you this time.

Gloves can be as dangerous as any other type of loose cloting. If your machines moving parts i.e. bit or blade should catch your glove it could suck you in.

[LCHIEN]

from the pictures, I would agree with LarryG that this was a jointing operation and you should have used a offset fence.

My additional comment would be that using a jointer-operation this way you don't use feather boards but used a hand over hand operation and push shoes where one is behind the blade and one before the blade.

Yet another problem I see is the total thin-ness of the piece. A little too small for hand-over hand operation and apt to bend and not stay straight.

I personally don't think you used the ideal tool. MY comment on how to do this in the future:
First choice by far - I would have ripped this to the perfect dimensions on the table saw. There are ways to handle skinny pieces and I can regularly set rip widths to .005" (you have to make a trial cut on a scrap piece of wood to verify it or make a final adjust).

Second choice would be to use a thickness planer
on a piece ripped to just oversize. and take off 1/32 at a step or less. The base and wongs support the piece fully so the thiness is less of an issue. And it keeps a uniform thickness each pass which the jointers won't do.

Third choice would be an edge jointer again take of no more than 1/32 if you want accuracy and clean cut. But I think the piece is too thin in both dimensions for even this. And If you do too many multiple passes you risk having different thicknesses along the piece.


My most distant choice would be the router set up with an offeset fence as a jointer... because of the difficulty of working with the thin piece and because you have to push sideways, not down to hold the piec into the bit. Finally you can't take off 1/8 to 1/16th inch, gotta go in 1/32 or less.


or a router set up for jointing. At least the edge jointer you would have been pushing down with the shoes instead of horizontaly.

[GaryA]

I've since taken another (cautious) stab at this. I read the section in "Woodworking with the Router", and have the fence offset on the outfeed. I set up my table with the 1/16" shim on the outfeed and set the bit appropriately (I believe) ...I'm still getting the same sensation that kickback is imminent as before, and shut it down.....I think it may be the size of the piece as you stated Loring. I'm going to try it again with a test piece that is a couple inches wide to see if that is the problem.....so far, not feeling good about jointing on my router table. As far as ripping the piece down to width on the TS...may be a little easier in a couple of weeks now that I have a Shark Guard on the way from Lee. The stock guard/splitter/pawls was preventing me from making tight rips for the size I needed...

[Brian G]

Gary

I'm wondering if you're also battling grain direction of the wood. Check out Tom Hintz's most outstanding tip about reading grain direction.

[LCHIEN]

quote:Originally posted by GaryA

I've since taken another (cautious) stab at this. I read the section in "Woodworking with the Router", and have the fence offset on the outfeed. I set up my table with the 1/16" shim on the outfeed and set the bit appropriately (I believe) ...I'm still getting the same sensation that kickback is imminent as before, and shut it down.....I think it may be the size of the piece as you stated Loring. I'm going to try it again with a test piece that is a couple inches wide to see if that is the problem.....so far, not feeling good about jointing on my router table. As far as ripping the piece down to width on the TS...may be a little easier in a couple of weeks now that I have a Shark Guard on the way from Lee. The stock guard/splitter/pawls was preventing me from making tight rips for the size I needed...

for that size of board thisckness, I still think 1/16th inch is too much to take off in one pass.

Also I'm going to note the hnad-over-hand push shoe technique requires you to push the wood over the cutter . As soon as you pass the cutter you should swap than shoe/hand to the infeed side about which time the other hand should be pushing the wood over te bit.
With that thin a piece and the bit guard projection you have, this would be impossible to do right. Note how real jointers have a spring-loaded swingin blade guard.

[John Hunter]

Brian,

Good article!

[Brian G]

John, I don't know whether you know, but Tom posts here. I really like his articles and reviews.

I feel a little sad for the demise of his poor little yellow angle guage in his recent review.

[Thom2]

quote:Originally posted by Knuckles

Gary

I'm wondering if you're also battling grain direction of the wood. Check out Tom Hintz's most outstanding tip about reading grain direction.

I think Brian hit the nail right on the head ....

I think in this picture ...



that the stock is actually reversed of the way it was originally being fed thru the cutter, there's no way that the bit would have ripped at it like that if it were being fed in the same direction that it's laying on the table in the photo.

Feeding against the grain would certainly invite blowout and/or kickback like Gary's describing.


Thom
lookin' from a different angle

[GaryA]

Wow... Just looked at my "Router Kickback Reminder Stick" you see pictured. Thom...thats exactly right in that when I snapped the picture, I did have the stock placed opposite of how I actually fed it. Brian, thanks for the article....great info...and seems like another really good explanation of what is happening. I looked at the most recent piece that I shimmed up with my correct setup on the table, and as the article states, it is hard to sometimes find the grain direction (in my above pictured piece, it is much more clear (not that I know what to look for)). This piece of red oak I'm using this time is much cleaner and the grain is much more uniform...but I can see verry slight direction. I'll try the carpenter square. If you guys want to see a pic of this piece, I'll post. Thanks!

[LarryG]

First, by way of clarification, I agree: no featherboards when jointing on a router table. When I talked about applying pressure, I meant by hand, but didn't specifically say that.

Second, and more important, I'm with Loring about milling this piece some other way. I'd probably use my thickness planer to get the board's thickness to match the width of the miter slot, then rip a narrow strip to match the depth of the slot using either the table saw or, more likely, the bandsaw.