Shop Vac or Household vac for dust collection?

[redfepd]

I'm currently using an old household vacuum cleaner to collect dust from the BT3 via the exhaust port (duct tape usage #5379) and was curious to know if using a shop vac would work any better?

I've looked at the cost of shop vacs and reasonable ones seem to retail for $60-90 at the BORG but will I see any improvement?

I know everyone will say that HF has DC systems for about $150-200 but that's way more than I can justify since I barely qualify as a weekend woodworker[:I]

I tried to assess their performance by comparing CFM values for DC systems but none of the shop vacs list that info.

Can anyone give me some guidance? I should also point out that I only use the BT3, a router and an orbital sander and will never own a jointer or planer - so I don't make too much dust.

Thanks.

PS. If it will be better, any recommendations on the one to get in that price range?

[LCHIEN]

That's an interesting question.

Right off the bat I'd say a shop vac has the advantage of being able to handle wet and dry stuff, but that's of interest as a shop vac but not as a tool dust collecting machine.

Also the Shop vac is probably more designed to handle a lot of solids where as the house vac is more for houshold dust.

Other than that, I can't say offhand.

Shop vacs typically hit 50-100 CFM, I hear. Vs. DC 500-1000 CFM.

P.S.
A little more thought,
If you have an older home vac, then the cut point (micron size) of its bags is probably limited. Also, if it uses disposable bags then you will probably fill them quickly and go thru a lot of them - an expense.

If you have a shop vac, then many of them can be retrofitted with
HEPA filters to minimize the recirculated fine dust that's bad for you.
Also they have 5- 16 gallon cans which collect the chips and dust - these are more convenient to empty and certainly you will have to empty them much less often and not pitch one-time bags.

I think the household vac will be a troublesome option.
A shop vac will catch a lot of your tablesaw dust but not be as effective as a DC, but maybe 75% as good.

[Ken Weaver]

What Loring said. On the other hand if the household vac set up is working, why not use it till it quits? Just watch it to see if it tends to overheat.

[Tom Hintz]

Dust collection is one of the things that is best done by a machine meant to do it. compromising usually leads to poor performance and little or no reduction in airborn dust which is the most harmful to you.
I recently upgraded to the Delta 50-760, 1200cfm, 1 micron filtering unit that admittedly is outside the money you mention but still far less than a doctors visit or two, let alone more serious health issues. I have a review of that machine at the link below with more on it's features and a link to see the current cost.
Shopvac's are only marginally effective, as would be a home vacuum because they are designed to small amounts of air very quickly to handle the fine dust in small amounts. True dust collectors move large amounts of air at somewhat slower speeds to carry the large amounts of dust and chips away from the machine. The better dust collectors also filter the exhaust down to 1 micron, some even less. It is this fine, airborn dust that you get in your lungs. My old DC picked up the chips just fine but did little more than launch the fine dust into the shop air worse than the machine making it in the first place.
We all have to work within budgets in our woodworking shops but sometimes we need to take a long hard look at what we are buying and how justified that expense really is. I think a quality dust collector is a wise investment and one that can keep you healthy enough to pursue this hobby for many years to come.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/d50-760rvu.html

[Tundra_Man]

One thing to keep in mind is that most household vacs pull the dirt through the impeller into the filter. Shop vacs have the impeller on the other side of the filter, so the big chunks don't bounce around and destroy things. That's why a household vac makes terrible noises when you suck up a penny, and all you'll hear is a dull "thud" with a shop vac.

The household vac may work for the time being, but I wouldn't expect the longevity of a shop-vac or DC system.

[gmack5]

Just a thought...
Have you considered the possibility of putting a "Cycolonic Seperator" in line between your dust source and the Vacuum Source (Vacuum Cleaner)? I don't know if it'll work, but it would be worth checking out.

[redfepd]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

Tom makes a great point and I fully agree with him a DC would be the best solution all round given the potential long-term damage to my lungs. However, when I said I barely qualified as a weekend woodworker I was probably being over generous, what I meant to say was "If I'm lucky I power up the BT3 once every 3 or 4 months". So the amount of dust I make (even over many years) probably isn't going to do me sufficient harm to get the DC.

It's also funny that the use of a cyclone and HEPA filters was mentioned as, without giving the long and very boring story of how I got it, the household vac that I'm using is actually a Dyson and therefore has a cyclone separator instead of a bag and also has HEPA filtration. So I guess that it probably isn't spraying the finer stuff back out and into the shop.

All of which seems to steer me to the conclusion that I'm not really going to see any benefit from buying a shop vac other than the increased capacity and the wet/dry features. It doesn't look like it would suck up any more stuff from the BT3 than my vac already does so why bother (plus I'd have to pay extra for the HEPA filter).

So, unless anyone has more info to suggest that the shop vac would be a real improvement, I guess the discussion is closed and I can save my money for other power tools instead.

Thanks to all for your valuable input.

[dlminehart]

The reviews I've seen of the Dyson suggest it would actually work better for shop applications than for general household use. Specifically, the suction remains extremely good (cyclone benefit?), and emissions low (good HEPA filter, combined with good sealing of air path). Drawbacks, relative to other vacs for general household use, are cost (about 50-100% more than vacs that do a better job on carpets), loudness (worse than the average, not as much a problem in the shop), and difficulty in changing tools and accessories (again, not a big deal if its just hooked up in the shop).

[Tundra_Man]

If you did pick up a shop-vac, I don't think it would be money wasted. They're pretty handy for other things as well, especially when your basement floods.

After never having any problems, in the last 2 years my basement has flooded 5 times for 3 different reasons. I'm glad I had the ability to suck up as much of the water as I could to at least minimize the damage.

[JimD]

A factor I did not notice mentioned is the air flow when there is some resistance. My DC flows more than a house vacumn or a shop-vac but not necessarily more when hooked up to the partially blocked port of the BT3100. DCs are typically made to pull a lot of air but only when the resistance to air movement is low. Their airflow falls off very rapidly with resistance. I have ports at each machine because I have a 1hp Delta DC and that is what is recommended with a small DC but I notice little change in vacumn if I leave two ports open. I think it's because the resistence of the single line is high enough that opening the extra port has not much more effect on airflow than just pulling against the greater vacumn. Anyway, shop vacs and house vacumns are typically setup with a fan system that has a more gradual reduction in airflow with resistance. That is an advantage with a relatively small opening like the BT3100 has.

Jim

[Anthony]

quote:Originally posted by redfepd

I'm currently using an old household vacuum cleaner to collect dust from the BT3 via the exhaust port (duct tape usage #5379) and was curious to know if using a shop vac would work any better?

I've looked at the cost of shop vacs and reasonable ones seem to retail for $60-90 at the BORG but will I see any improvement?

I know everyone will say that HF has DC systems for about $150-200 but that's way more than I can justify since I barely qualify as a weekend woodworker[:I]

I tried to assess their performance by comparing CFM values for DC systems but none of the shop vacs list that info.

Can anyone give me some guidance? I should also point out that I only use the BT3, a router and an orbital sander and will never own a jointer or planer - so I don't make too much dust.

Thanks.

PS. If it will be better, any recommendations on the one to get in that price range?

I keep putting off getting the much vaunted HF dust collector and have been getting by with a recently purchased Ridgid wet dry vac, one the two larger models that HD has. With a filter bag inside it is pretty good and doesn't spew waste out the exhaustand It is also reasonably quiet, much less noise than my old shop vac., with the smaller diameter hose it has also acted as a portable dust collector until i can buy that Fein vacuum.
Anthony