What does toe out mean?

[p8ntblr]

Reading a review for a blade and came upon this term. What does this phrase mean "I always toe out the rip fence perhaps 1/64" at the end to prevent binding."

[ragswl4]

Reading a review for a blade and came upon this term. What does this phrase mean "I always toe out the rip fence perhaps 1/64" at the end to prevent binding."

This is of course only applicable to ripping a board. With the fence to the right of the blade, it means that the rear of the fence is set 1/64" farther from the right of the blade than the front of the fence. Example: Fence at the front of the saw is set to 3" and the back of the fence is set 3 1/64" from the blade. It helps to prevent binding between the fence and the blade and also reduces the risk of (but does not prevent) kickback.

It just keeps the board from getting pinched between the fence and the blade. Not a 100% solution either. Other factors come into play when cutting a board such as stress relief, misaligned cut, dull blade and probably a host of others.

[leehljp]

"Toe out" means - out of parallel, usually a very small amount, in a direction away from the parallel. "Toe in" is out of parallel in the opposite direction. In this case, it means the fence is out of parallel by a smidgen at the back to keep the rip from binding.

I grew up with that term applied to wheel alignment on cars, trucks and farm machinery.

[cabinetman]

The explanation for "toe in/out" is correct. Since we all have the right to agree or disagree, I disagree with the "toe out" implementation. It's my experience that starting out of parallel can be as much or more of a problem as whatever may happen at the end of the fence with the stock being cut. I see it as starting with a problem.

With experience, you get a "feel" for the cut, either by the sounds, cutting ease, or other physical characteristics that are out of the ordinary, which are signs to pay attention to.

[ragswl4]

The explanation for "toe in/out" is correct. Since we all have the right to agree or disagree, I disagree with the "toe out" implementation. It's my experience that starting out of parallel can be as much or more of a problem as whatever may happen at the end of the fence with the stock being cut. I see it as starting with a problem.

With experience, you get a "feel" for the cut, either by the sounds, cutting ease, or other physical characteristics that are out of the ordinary, which are signs to pay attention to.

I agree 100%. In fact I always set my fence parallel to the blade, front and back.

I was giving the textbook answer (at least what I have read on the web and elsewhere) on this method for toeing out a fence. I neither approve or disapprove of this method. Its a personal choice, not my recommendation.

[leehljp]

The explanation for "toe in/out" is correct. Since we all have the right to agree or disagree, I disagree with the "toe out" implementation. It's my experience that starting out of parallel can be as much or more of a problem as whatever may happen at the end of the fence with the stock being cut. I see it as starting with a problem.

With experience, you get a "feel" for the cut, either by the sounds, cutting ease, or other physical characteristics that are out of the ordinary, which are signs to pay attention to.

And Cabinetman is CORRECT on his explanation concerning the fence. Pure parallel works well and is what most should strive for. There is a Caveat to that: for the occasional non professional user, recognizing the problem based on the sound and feel is a skill based on experience, and is acquired.

For the inexperienced, they can enjoy the benefits of weekend woodworking and minimize some risks by having the fence toed out by about .01 at the end of the fence.

I was fortunate to have some relatives who knew how to recognize the feel and sound of a cut and taught me this when I was young. I still set my fence toed out the thickness of a dollar bill for several reasons.

[p8ntblr]

Thanks for the explanation guys. Exactly how do you do it though? Do you physically push the end of the fence out a bit? Wouldn't you risk damaging the fence?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Thanks for the explanation guys. Exactly how do you do it though? Do you physically push the end of the fence out a bit? Wouldn't you risk damaging the fence?

Depends upon what kind of fence you are talking about, but most T-style fences have adjustment pads that contact the rail. You would set the right one shorter than the left one. But like the others have stated, I wouldn't do it.

[ragswl4]

Thanks for the explanation guys. Exactly how do you do it though? Do you physically push the end of the fence out a bit? Wouldn't you risk damaging the fence?

No, don't push the fence out. Most fences have an adjustment setting for aligning the fence parallel to the blade. What one would actually do is misalign the fence out of parallel by the amount you want for the toe out. Note the term, misalign. I would not force the fence out of alignment by pushing on it as you risk warping the fence or worse, busting something.

What saw and fence do you have?

[p8ntblr]

22114 but am replacing stock fence with a biesemeyer.

[Stan]

In Montana.... 'toe out' means ya done did wore a big ol' hole in one of yer boots.

[LCHIEN]

1/64th inch is a lot of toe out
Most people talk of .005" or a dollar bill thickness (which is about .oo4")
if you're going to do it, that's better than 1/64th. But I think parallel to .005" is good, negative (toe in) is bad.

Not much difference between 0 and .005" anyway.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

22114 but am replacing stock fence with a biesemeyer.

Forget the concept of toe out. Get it as parallel as possible making sure to avoid any toe in!

[gwyneth]

Jeffrey's right! The Biesemeyer folks have spent millions of bucks on engineering to obtain that precision, and if I were you, I'd take advantage of it.

[cabinetman]

I've got to chime in again. Woodworking and table saw use is not rocket science. You need rockets for that. The terms "misalignment" and "out of parallel", have been used so far, and don't they ring any bells here. I'm still only giving my opinion. If you need to get a measurement of .005 on your fence, you might be too anal about this craft. This may work for some saw operators, but it makes saw setups sound way too difficult, and might scare some away from the fear of kickback.

For example, cutting two boards straight to glue up, there should be no misalignment in the cut. What happens when the stock starts getting to the end of the fence. Yup, that's a thought for the day. Also, the length of the kerf on a 10" blade is probably 7" or more of a straight line (the blade). If you have a diversion in that line of cut, the possibility of binding could be increased. Since it is not predictable which way a board will relieve, or move when cut, for me, starting parallel makes more sense.