Getting my feet wet

[PALefty]

Well, I think the time has come to finally get my feet wet on a woodworking project. I have a new (large) hdtv on its way and it needs a cabinet/stand to sit on. I have looked at various stands on the market.. all which look nice but are grossly overpriced. The main downside though.. is they do not fit my requirements. Primarily, none of them have room to fit my center channel speaker and at least 3 components. In addition, none of them are tall enough to raise the TV over my main speakers (therefore requiring more room). My room is not perfect for a home entertainment system, but I am going to make it work the best I can. I am bound to ask many questions in the near future.. so here is a little more background on my requirements etc, that may be helpful for those interested:

- I have a small corner nook where the tv is to be placed
- Furniture in the room is maple (I plan on using maple ply)
- I want modern/contemporary style
- I have pretty big speakers which I need to incorporate. Even though this is not acceptable from an audio standpoint, I have decided to build the speakers into the unit. I will leave the back and front open to try my best not to hurt the acoustics.
- I plan on using pocket screws, dados & glue for most of the joints. I do have a biscuit jointer if needed.
- Doors will be later, but if using euro style hinges & shelf pins, I would probably want them drilled before assembly.



Now,on to my project. I have spent most of last night and this morning playing with sketchup. I think I did pretty well in coming up with my overall design and a cutlist. If anybody is interested in critiquing my work, I would be happy to post it or email them my file. Criticism is certainly welcomed. My initial thought was to do a prototype out of cheaper material (mdf?). I say this for two reasons. 1) This is my first project and I don't want to screw up the expensive stuff 2) my tv is to be delivered Feb 1-5, so I need to have something done by then (even if it is not pretty). I do not have a truck... so I had to layout my cutlist so I can have HD/Lowes do the sacrificial cut w/ tearout to be expected. I believe I have given myself enough room for error to clean up the cuts afterward.

Ok, first question... should I do a prototype w/ cheaper material.. or go for the gold?

[siliconbauhaus]

By all means post a image of you design mate. Why not rent their truck for 90 mins instead of having them cut it up? Last time I did that is was $20 to use it.

[mpc]

I'll second what siliconbauhaus suggested: rent the flatbed truck at HD/Lowes. They both do it and it is twenty bucks typcally - and you don't have to pay for fuel either I believe. Cheaper than renting from U-Haul. Or find somebody with a pickup/minivan to help you out. You will probably be better able to make clean cuts chopping the pieces to size than HD/Lowes typically does. How often do they clean/sharpen/change their blades? And do they use a quality (= more expensive) blade to begin with? I don't know what tools you have to make such cuts - hand-held circular saw, your table saw, etc. but you can get a good plywood cutting blade for it (unlike the general purpose rip blade on the HD/Lowes saws) and do the usual tricks for a clean cut: pre-score the cut with a knife, tape over it, etc. to keep the edge clean.

As for the design of your stand... HDTVs are generally quite heavy. I hope you have some vertical supports designed in - top to floor level as continuous pieces for strength - right where the TV's own stand will sit. If this assembly is on wheels then there should be wheels under these vertical pieces too; not just in the corners of the whole assembly. You don't want the top to bow under the TV's load. A double-thick top might be an option too. It can be hidden by whatever face frame (if any) you have; I assume you have something to hide the plywood edging.

Tip for strength: whenever possible, make your joints so they take the weight/load in compression. I.e. the top should sit ON the side/vertical pieces or in rabbets. The sides/verticals should sit ON the bottom piece, etc.

Many moons ago a friend of mine and I built a full-size stereo/TV cabinet as a wedding gift for his dad's 2nd wedding. Similar to you, we were both fairly inexperienced - just a lot of reading but little hands-on practice - and we used oak plywoood. It came out fine. A few "oops" along the way to redo, a few lessons learned, etc. but not too much wasted/ruined material. It looked good when we were finished with it and it was plenty strong.

Edit: I just re-read your message and noted "Ok, first question... should I do a prototype w/ cheaper material.. or go for the gold?" which I never answered... Depends on what you feel comfortable doing. I'd get some cheaper plywood and make a few practice cuts in it - test your circular saw or whatever you plan to use to see how clean it cuts, how straight you can make the cut, etc. If it's not perfect, then do what I like to do: circ saw the piece almost to size, about an inch extra. Then make the real cut on the table saw with the now-manageable sized piece. Make a few practice rabbets and dado joints too. I wouldn't use MDF or something too different from your final maple ply either; you want to learn the "gotchas" of the joints ahead of time. MDF takes different fasteners than plywood so you wouldn't be able to practice/test those ideas.

mpc

[PALefty]

By all means post a image of you design mate. Why not rent their truck for 90 mins instead of having them cut it up? Last time I did that is was $20 to use it.

hmmm... not a bad idea. I think I will have enough room between the cuts to have them break it down in this case. I drew the cuts with an extra inch on each side.. and still had some room. If the cuts were close or if it meant one sheet instead of two, then I would have to reconsider for that price. One thing I have to verify.. is that I did not mess up the grain. I wasn't thinking about that when I drew it up.

As for the sketchup rendering. Everything was drawn to scale. When I first started... I did the components with the intention of then drawing the carcus around it. That didn't work. I then drew the carcus. I haven't figured out how I can put the components inside the carcus. Note- the unit will have 3 removable shelves in the bottom middle section.

[PALefty]

Tip for strength: whenever possible, make your joints so they take the weight/load in compression. I.e. the top should sit ON the side/vertical pieces or in rabbets. The sides/verticals should sit ON the bottom piece, etc.

Edit: I just re-read your message and noted "Ok, first question... should I do a prototype w/ cheaper material.. or go for the gold?" which I never answered... Depends on what you feel comfortable doing. I'd get some cheaper plywood and make a few practice cuts in it - test your circular saw or whatever you plan to use to see how clean it cuts, how straight you can make the cut, etc. If it's not perfect, then do what I like to do: circ saw the piece almost to size, about an inch extra. Then make the real cut on the table saw with the now-manageable sized piece. Make a few practice rabbets and dado joints too. I wouldn't use MDF or something too different from your final maple ply either; you want to learn the "gotchas" of the joints ahead of time. MDF takes different fasteners than plywood so you wouldn't be able to practice/test those ideas.

mpc

Thanks for thre reply!

Yes, they will definitely have a lot of tearout on their saw...I have seen it every time. I don't plan on doing face frame.. so yes, I will have to use the edging. That is another reason why I was thinking of a quick prototype out of something cheaper. It will take me some time to do that and have it come out nice. I might have to order the edging too.

My tv will weigh 95lbs.

Edit- The TV itself comes on a plastic base that is 37 inches wide in the front and tapers to 31 inches in the back. So- point being, most of the weight will be centered in the middle. The unit width is 55.5'', which is the same as the screen width.

I knew the first one (in your tip)... but wasn't sure about the second one. Thanks for the clarification.

I wasn't going to use wheels.. but am not against it. I figure I could always add them later if I wanted a different look to the unit.

I plan on using the EZ-guide for most of my cuts. I may use a TS if I find I have to.. but it is sill NIB and I haven't decided if I was going to keep it or not. I don't want to use it until I decide to keep it.

Ok, point taken on the MDF. I didn't think it would be too different with the pocket screws.. but if so, then I should use plywood.

[jackellis]

I'm no design whiz when it comes to wood but you ought to think about how to stiffen the carcase so it doesn't rack. Even something as simple as hardboard tacked to the back will keep the case square under load. You could also use corner blocks with something like pocket screws.

We bought some cheap HD cabinets for a garage once that use European knockdown fasteners. Last step was to tack a piece of 1/8" hardboard on the back so it would stay square once the shelves were loaded. All of our freestanding bookcases are built the same way, though with better materials.

[siliconbauhaus]

If you have the EZ guide then you're good to go mate ( I've got to get one sometime )

If you're looking to buildit from MDF I'd suggest getting a stepped drill bit and using "confirmat" screws. You can get them from McFeely's

[PALefty]

hinge width

How much space should one allow... to leave room for a typical frameless hinge? In other words.. how much wider should I make my cabinet box to allow room for a hinge? Since my cabinet will house a speaker... it will not have any wiggle room unless I make allowances for it from the beginning.


thx

Jeff

[siliconbauhaus]

Euro type hinges fit flush with the side panel but the part that connects to it and the door is about 1/2 inch in depth.

I'm wondering where you'd be putting doors on ?

[PALefty]

Euro type hinges fit flush with the side panel but the part that connects to it and the door is about 1/2 inch in depth.

I'm wondering where you'd be putting doors on ?

I was planning on putting three doors on. The two side doors were going to be a wood frame w/ speaker grill material inserts. The middle door was going to have a glass insert.

[onedash]

I built an entertainment center out of MDF. Mostly because I have a projection TV and couldnt put anything on top. I plan to throw it away when I move because it wouldn't make it on a truck. I also didn't put anything on the back and the only thing that stops it from racking is the tv. It has about 1/4" on each side so it can move that much in each direction. I left two openings on the side that could have been filled with some sort of grill material. I also doubled the edges to give it a beefier look and tacked some glue blocks at the corners.
Then I just spray painted it black. Paint job wasn't great because my primer was old and went on really bad.
Might have to make a new one out of real wood some day.

[siliconbauhaus]

If your going to put a glass door on I'd just go with those clip on fittings that the glass sits into, so you dont have to worry about clearance on that.

As for the speaker doors, why not use a butt hinge on the inside with a magnetic catch? Again using this you wouldnt have to worry about clearance.

[PALefty]

Euro type hinges fit flush with the side panel but the part that connects to it and the door is about 1/2 inch in depth.

So, for this style (142852) hinge, I should add an additional 1/2" to my dimensions to account for the connecting arm. Should I use 3/4 just in case I need a little extra clearance for any swinging action? I don't have the hinges yet.. but I don't want it to hold up my progress while they ship unless I have to.


Any idea how much would be needed for a hidden door like this 130858 ...assuming 3/4" for the door?

[PALefty]

As for the speaker doors, why not use a butt hinge on the inside with a magnetic catch? Again using this you wouldnt have to worry about clearance.

I think I know what you mean by butt hinge. I guess my reasoning would be that I am trying to mimick the modern furniture I see in stores which typically have hidden euro hinges. I didn't see any butt hinges jump out at me from the Woodcraft or Rockler catalogs.

[JimD]

If you have a hitch, another cheap option for hauling stuff is a U-haul trailer. Around here you can get one for the day for $10.

I cannot make cuts precise enough for a project like this with my circular saw. It would work if I did it that way but I would have gaps in the joints. If I was to try, I would use my sawboards (homemade guides that minimize chipout and eliminate needing to measure the offset of the sawblade). With a stock table saw, you would end up making some cross cuts with the circular saw anyway, however (I like to use a radial arm or the table saw but not the sliding miter table for heavy boards).

I would plan on edging the front edge of the plywood. You need to anyway to hide the plys and it will also help to hide gaps in your joints (if you have any).

Jim