joining question?

[footprintsinconc]

i was thinking of making a small kitchen utensil holder for my wife out of some 4.75" wide pieces of oak. they are 3/4" think, but i have planned them down to 1/2" thick. i was going to join two pieces 7" tall to make the front and back sides and then glue the ends on that are going to be 4.75" wide aswell.

the question is when i join the two pieces, show i use biscuits to join them or is just glueing them without a biscuit strong enough? when i made my cabinet doors, i joined the raised panels with biscuits because they were tall panels. but for somthing that is only 7" tall, would it be necessary?

thanks.

[Tom Hintz]

With a good fitting joint, glue alone will be plenty. Modern glues are stronger than the wood anyway so the key is getting the joint itself right.

[SARGE..g-47]

Good morning footprint...

Without futher ado if you have decided not to use box joints... ditto Tom! :>)

Regards...

[LCHIEN]

I agree. Biscuits won't help the function or strength of this kind of assembly any, I like them probably as an assembly aid/guide when working with larger assemblies.

Make sure the surfaces are clean and when you apply the glue make sure that both surfaces are "wet" with glue. To wet the wood with glue, usually have to use a brush or sometimes a finger to spread the glue. I find just putting a bead of glue down from the nozzle of the glue bottle sometimes does not wet the wood porperly and leads to glue failure.

[MilDoc]

Absolutely agree. Bisquits help with aligning large panels, but really don't contribute much to strength according to tests. Just make sure you apply enough glue and don't clamp too tight (don't want to starve the joint).

[footprintsinconc]

thanks all! i always thought that the biscuits were for strength and out-of-plane stability. now that i know they are only for alignment purposes, i will just go ahead and glue the joint. one question though, when i clamp the wood together, you said dont tighten the clamps too much, i will clamp the joint until i dont see the joint, right? that shouldnt be too tight?.

it seems like this project is going to be delayed for a couple of weeks. i am putting together my new ridgid jointer/planer. just finished the base and the mobile base, still have the rest to do.

i will test out the jointer on this project and see how nice of a joint i get!

[LCHIEN]

thanks all! i always thought that the biscuits were for strength and out-of-plane stability. now that i know they are only for alignment purposes, i will just go ahead and glue the joint. one question though, when i clamp the wood together, you said dont tighten the clamps too much, i will clamp the joint until i dont see the joint, right? that shouldnt be too tight?.

it seems like this project is going to be delayed for a couple of weeks. i am putting together my new ridgid jointer/planer. just finished the base and the mobile base, still have the rest to do.

i will test out the jointer on this project and see how nice of a joint i get!

you will want to clamp until the joint is closed - no gaps.
Ideally you want just enough glue that will start to squeeze out at that point but not really. Any more and its clean up city, any less and its a weaker joint. I have to admit, after several years of doing this I am still trying to get it right. Lastly, don't over tighten or you will literally squeeze out all the glue and be left with a dry joint!

[footprintsinconc]

Loring, thanks for replying. i will keep that in mind.

[LCHIEN]

you will want to clamp until the joint is closed - no gaps.
Ideally you want just enough glue that will start to squeeze out at that point but not really. Any more and its clean up city, any less and its a weaker joint. I have to admit, after several years of doing this I am still trying to get it right. Lastly, don't over tighten or you will literally squeeze out all the glue and be left with a dry joint!

Like i said, I've been trying for years to get it just right.
What seems to be working for me best these days is:
put a bead of (PVA, e.g. standard woodworking) glue from the bottle tip onto the each side of the joint.
Use my finger to spread it out and cover with a thin layer edge to edge, end to end. Make sure the glue is wet to the wood. Using your finger to push the glue and spread it in the thin layer is most important, leave just enough for your finger to glide, you don't want to squeegee it off with your finger. wipe up the excess that your finger pushes up, add more if you couldn't cover it spreading with your finger.
Now you should have a edge to edge covering of glue with just a thin but complete layer and the glue wet to the wood all over.

Now when you glue it up, clamp it until you just see some glue beginning to try and ooze out, if its pretty hard clamping then you've got it just right, you can back off so you don't get a lot of squeeze out. if glue comes out with just mild clamping, then you put too much glue in it.

You'll want a damp cloth to wipe your fingers with when you need to clean them.

[linear]

This trick works good for me, maybe it will help you.

I obtained several 2x2 foot chunks of melamine particle board from the cull bin. Now when I want to edge glue some thin material, I use these as "glueup tables" since the PVA glue I like doesn't stick to the melamine at all.

I tack a couple scraps to the glue table, spaced so that the workpieces just snugly fit between them. If you get the spacing right, the boards kind of "snap" into place when you flatten them down along the table top. I fine-tune that fit, then glue them up and put a caul over the glue line that is also a melamine scrap. In a pinch, packing tape on MDF will do the same thing.

From the picture is worth 1k words dept, here's a shot of two glueups going on at once on this jig:

That's a faux-woodgrain melamine sheet on the bottom, two leopardwood panels sitting between some bich ply strips I ripped from scrap, and melamine cauls on the top centered over the glue line.

Those C-clamps are not cranked tight at all, just enough to keep the glue line flat.

When I'm done, I pop the strips out and reuse the melamine. I wound up with 6 leopardwood panels when I was done:


I learned this trick from a Taunton video--my contribution is to use melamine for the table top.