Glue joint router bit

[JTimmons]

The way I've seen most all router jointing is to bury the bit in the fence within an opening, stick the bit just proud of the right side (feed side) fence by the amount you wish to trim, and then have the left (outfeed) fence be flush with the cut edge of the bit. That way if you ever pause or stop or move the wood away form the fence, it will be safe, and you can resume by moving the wood back to the fence.

I see two potential advantages to Niki's setup - its easier to setup and the straight edge is longer than most fences, but I think the danger factor is there.

Anyone else see it that way?

I have seen it done the way you describe too, only the outfeed side of the fence was shimmed outward to meet the bits edge.

I'll agree the way Niki shows seems to risky for kickback. I am not even talking about letting go of the board during the feed process, seems the slightest movement into the bit would send it shooting back at you. Even the slightest release of pressure during the feed could cause this.

[drumpriest]

Well, obviously this has worked for Niki, but I wouldn't do it. The kickback risk as described is why. Even if you did everything perfectly you could have a curly grain piece where the cutter would eventually be digging into end grain, and with nowhere for it to go, this could be bad.

I've done it the way Loring is describing, and I've done it with a straight edge, some clamps, and a pattern bit. It depends upon how long the board is that needs jointing. I personally prefer the straight edge and pattern bit for large boards over my jointer. Easier to handle. I've done desktops this way that have come out perfectly.

I'm not picking on you Niki, as I said, it obviously has worked for you, I just agree with Loring that it would make me uncomfortable.

[niki]

In spite of the fact that everything went very smooth and easy for me because, as you could see, I was just “shaving” the board, I also agree with all of you that there is a danger of a kickback.

Just for the good discussion, can you tell me what is the difference between this set-up and ripping on a table saw, considering the fact that so many people are even removing the splitter and guard because “they are on the way”.

niki

[LCHIEN]

...
Just for the good discussion, can you tell me what is the difference between this set-up and ripping on a table saw, considering the fact that so many people are even removing the splitter and guard because “they are on the way”.

niki

Oh yeah. The rotation axis of the router bit and the saw blade are in different planes.

With the saw, the direction of force on the wood is mostly downward at the cutting edge. Kickback happens only if you let the rear of the wood get lifted, then it walks over the blade and jams between the fence and the blade.

With the router bit rotation, the force is ALWAYS set to jam the wood between the fence and bit.

Granted, if you maintain complete control over the wood in either case, then you probably won't have a kickback in either case. BUT, if you have a moment of inattention, then I think the kickback with the router is more likely.

[niki]

Thanks Loring

In both cases the kickback is caused by "something", you know what I mean without expanding.

After I posted, I went to the garage and made this set-up and I used narrow and long board.
I made 3 passes, in one of them I stopped to show the amount of "shaving".

As I said I did not feel any problem without the feather board but with the feather board it was even easier because I did not have to take care for the outfeed side but only to concentrate on the infeed.

If you remember my "feeder roller", it can be adapted also for this task and it will keep the infeed and the outfeed sides pressed to the fence.

niki

[gjat]

The advantage niki's set up is consistency. If you use a fence that's off-set on the outfeed side, then deviation between the off-set and the amount the bit is sticking out would cause problems.

With niki's set up, I'd probably put a guard around the bit, use the feather board, use a higher straight edge/fence, and use c-clamps, not those grip clamps to hold the fence. Shaving only a bit at a time a few extra minutes of set-up to make verify the depth of cut would minimize the risk of kick-back and provide a good servicable paralell jointing operation.

[Black wallnut]

Since my recent losing battle with a router bit in motion I've become somewhat more sensitive to router safety! I am in total agreement with Loring that Niki's technique is dangerous and could result in a kickback. The fact that it has worked a few times is not material. In many cases one is subject to enhanced risk without injusry but it only takes one time for it all to catch up. The cuts I was making when my accident happened was not much different than those I had made many times in the past with the very slight difference of cut length. Minor errors in both judgement and technique can and do have disasterious results. Highly figured grain also adds to the mix; it certianly did in my case.

What Niki is showing is not nearly as bad as what one normally thinks of when it comes to trapping the workpeice between the cutter and the fence but it can be just as dangerous IMHO. Kickbacks happen quick, perhaps moreso with a router at high speed! The sensation of having your finger(s) bitten by a router is one that I would not recommend. The kickback was super fast but it seemed that time slowed down during the actual injury.

[gjat]

So you have an appendage lightly mutilated and not-quite ripped from your body and now you're all scared and stuff.

9.8 fingered sissy.


I'll re-think my analysis. I see niki's point that the operation is similar to using a table saw, ie: moving the workpiece in relationship to a spinning cutter. At the very least, one would have to use the same caution as using a table saw PLUS taking into consideration the bit can be buiried into the work-piece and cause quite a kick-back. Certainly some sort of guard around the bit (like a mini-fence, but not intended to touch the workpiece) that only exposes 1/8" of the bit face would called for. It could also incorporate dust collection and a feather board.

[niki]

Black Wallnut
I'm very sorry to hear (and see) about your injury and I wish you quick and full recovery.

You can see on these pictures and other pictures in my posts (those of the table saw) that my hands are never near by a rotating blade or bit, I use the guard and the riving knife regularly and push sticks, push blocks or push shoes. At the age of 62, I would not like to have any kind of accident for any stupid piece of furniture that I make as a hobby.

Gjat
The cheap grip clamps (that I improved) worked very good but, you are correct, better to use G clamps as the grip clamps can release due to vibrations.
I intend to make kind of "Feather Rollers" as I made for the TS but this time they will press the board against the fence at the infeed and outfeed sides (that cannot be done for TS).

Thanks for your other remarks

niki

[Russianwolf]

So you have an appendage lightly mutilated and not-quite ripped from your body and now you're all scared and stuff.

9.8 fingered sissy.


I'll re-think my analysis. I see niki's point that the operation is similar to using a table saw, ie: moving the workpiece in relationship to a spinning cutter. At the very least, one would have to use the same caution as using a table saw PLUS taking into consideration the bit can be buiried into the work-piece and cause quite a kick-back. Certainly some sort of guard around the bit (like a mini-fence, but not intended to touch the workpiece) that only exposes 1/8" of the bit face would called for. It could also incorporate dust collection and a feather board.

I've seen something similar to what you are describing that was in one of the magazines for a cathedral top door article. It could be easily modified to provide some additional safety here.

[niki]

After re-considering all the factors and replies, I decide to remove the pictures and I strongly advise,

DO NOT DO IT,

it's too dangerous and the kickback can happen sooner or later

I will try to work on some different solution with split fence or so.

Thanks to everybody that replied and helped me to make-up my mind.

Regards
niki