Basic Help with Plywood

[mackmack]

This is probably not the proper forum to ask such a question so I was hoping instead if one of you guys might be able to provide a valuable link.

I have been painting plywood, using an oil primer and a few coats of deep base enamal gloss paint. I have mixed emotions regarding the finnish and was trying to find the best types of paint and techniques for doing it right.

I have been all over the net which is swamped with people just trying to sell me paint. Its frustrating.

Anyways, I figured maybe one of you guys would know of another forum or link that is as good as this which might be more experienced in the nuances of painting wood.

Thanks for any and all help!

[hobkirk]

What don't you like about the method you're using? I think it will help us. And, BTW, we're gluttons for displaying what we know - or almost know...

[Pappy]

somebody here really does know something?????????

[leehljp]

The cabinetman should be able to offer some help, if he sees this thread.

[SARGE..g-47]

What are you going to use the painted plywood for, mackmack? What grade plywood and is it dry when you purchase? Could it have been sub-stituted with MDF which is very paintable?

Does your local Orange Box still carry the cheap grade (but smooth faced) maple ply they used to carry? It's the easiest I have found to paint as all ply is going to suck up paint to cover that grain and get an even finish. Always use a primer and then patience is the biggest key after that with ply.

It's like painting with Red tones. Ply requires at least 3 coats and more likely 4-5 coats on construction grade ply. More if you don't lay a primer or a coat of light grey first. My kid wanted a cinnmon red bedroom. I advised against it explaining why. The First Lady complied and they got the paint while I was at work. He applied the first coat over what I considered a god awful lime green (another problem color) that was there. A couple of coats of grey would have covered and blocked the green.

After 3 coats he gave up as the green still bleed throught. Dad had to go another 4 coats to get it right. He got the Cinnamon Red, but at someone else's time and expense. Patience and 5 gallons of paint total got it right. ha.. ha..

Regards...

[mackmack]

Thanks for the reply Sarge,

I am painting 5 ply "handyboard" that I got at the HD. I don't know the differences between plywood but I wouldn't consider it smooth. It was like 9 bucks for a 4 foot by 2 foot sheet or whatever the standard size is.

I went back the other day to get some more, same stuff, same price and same spot I got the other sheets. The stuff looked like complete crap. I don't even see how they were selling it... it had all this wood glue splattered everywhere to fill holes I guess... So I'm assuming that I have been buying whatever the crappiest stuff is.

I am making fountains out of the plywood(the water is contained in a plastic basin so water getting on the wood isn't a concern) and would like to keep costs down, can you recommend a more appropriate plywood, or any other wood for that matter, that is still cost effective(10-15 bucks a sheet)? I'd like to find something a little more consistent but cost is really the overwhelming factor.

I have been sanding it down first, priming(Behr oil primer), and then coating with two coats of paint(Behr enamel gloss) so I will try four today like you suggested. I paint with dark blues and earth tones(browns, grays, and creams).

I am pretty sure I have a lumber warehouse somewhere near by so hopefully I can get a better supply from them instead of relying on HD.

Thanks a lot for your time I appreciate it.

[cabinetman]

It's hard to trade off the labor involved in using a product to save money over starting with a product that needs very little. I doubt that you would want to spend the money on maple plywood, but it needs very little for a slick finish. This is considering it has to be plywood. MDO and MDF are very slick to start with but they aren't plywood.

If you want the cheapo stuff, try skim coating with spackle, finish sand or use a ROS to smooth, use a sealer like Kilz or a sanding sealer under the primer. By the time you put the color on it should be pretty smooth and not bleed.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[jziegler]

I'll second using something like Kilz as the sealer. I used it the first time recently, it's probably the best primer that I have used to date. And that was the watert based one.

As for your paint, I'd reccommend a higher quality brand than Behr. I had some leftover Behr flat enamel in white, and had a closet that I needed to paint white (over a light grey). It took three coats to get decent coverage, and even then it wasn't very good. I have had much better success for Sherwin Williams Pro Classic, but it is more expensive, but if it saves you coats, it may be worth it. Benjamin Moore is supposed to be very good as well.

You might want to try some different combinations of materials/paints and see what works best if you're making a lot of these fountains.

Jim

[SARGE..g-47]

Couldn't agree more with the guys on using the Kilz for the primer. I have used it for years on stained spots as it covers well. Just recently used it to prime raw wood and it's the best I've seen so far.

If you are building out-door fountains, I would roll the original coats with a roller in water based Latex Porch and Floor to save time. The last coat can be brushed on for a smooth deep coat. I use the Behr P & F and that particular product is excellent. The other Behr IMO, won't hold a candle to Benjamin Moore for interior paint or exterior.

I use expensive brushes and rollers. I clean rollers by leaving them on the roller stick extention and shooting them with a stream from a garden hose nozzle while holding the roller away and in front of me. Just spins right off..off and away. :>) Brushes get cleaned with a brush comb (very improtant if you want all the build-up removed throughly from deep within) and water based latex is easy to clean. I have Purdy brushes that are 16-18 years old that only require a slight timming with scissors occasionally to snip off wild bristles and keep a tapered tip. Like chisels, they eventually get to a point they are DOA in bristle lenght.

Just be patient and remember it's cheap ply. Waving a magic wand won't cure that. ha.. ha..

Regards...

[Tom Miller]

Sounds like MDO is exactly what you're looking for. It is plywood with a resin-based overlayer, specifically meant to be painted, and able to stand up to the elements.

Regards,
Tom

[MilDoc]

Just for the record, I love Lowe's American Tradition paint line. Covers well, easy to keep clean, and seems to last forever without fading.

BTW, I also love Kilz primer.

[mackmack]

Thanks guy,

I appreciate all your replies. I should be more specific. The fountains will be indoor and its more of a table top type of thing. The only reason I have been using plywood is because I was told it was the cheapest and takes paint well. I don't really have an affinity towards it either way.

I have never used or cut MDF, what is that stuff like? Is it hard to cut? hard to paint? what's the the differences between that and plywood?? Can I get that glass like finish I am going for with it? I'd go for it provided it would work for me and it wasn't to expensive. I figure everything is going to be painted so it doesn't matter what is underneath provided i get a nice finish.

Oh yeah, I have little arms on this fountain, some pieces .7 of an inch. Wouldn't MDF crumble at the size or lose it's rigidity?

Thanks for all your opinions on Behr, I didn't know that it wasn't that great.

[JR]

Sounds like MDO is exactly what you're looking for. It is plywood with a resin-based overlayer, specifically meant to be painted, and able to stand up to the elements.

Yep, MDO would be perfect. You won't find it at HD, though. You'll need to get it at a lumber yard, where they may well have it in stock. I understand it's very commonly used by sign painters.

JR

[mackmack]

What does MDO stand for anyways and what is it? does it very in thickness cause I am looking for something 1/2 to 3/4 inch in thickness. I have seen and know waht MDF if is though.

Also will titebound 3 wood glue work just as well(tack/strength) with MDO as it does with Plywood?.. I really love that stuff because it allows me to position some pieces the way I want and it sets quick and strong. Lastly, price. You guys are saying that I can get about the same amount of MDO for the price that I pay for the same amount of plywood?

Thanks for everything guys.

[Tom Miller]

What does MDO stand for anyways and what is it?

Medium Density Overlay -- plywood with a resin-based treatment on both faces.

I imagine it comes in 1/2" as well as 3/4" -- best to get it at a lumberyard, not a big box store.

The inside plys are your basic plywood. Titebond III would work very well.

Regards,
Tom