Jointer & planer size relationship

[davidtu]

It appears to me that the most popular jointer size is 6" and the planer about 12-13". Now, I know if you had the money and space those numbers would increase--but what I am curious about is if there is some logical or working relationship between the jointer and planer that makes it acceptable for most purposes to have the jointer be about half the size of the planer?

OR, is it just because of the way the machines are made that it turns out the 6" jointer price point coincides with the 12" planer price point--in terms of what the majority can generally afford. (Put another way, is it roughly twice as expensive to produce a comparably sized jointer versus a planer?)

As a follow up question, if you only have a 6" jointer would a 15" planer have much advantage over a similar 12" planer?

Thanks!

[drumpriest]

It seems to mostly be about price. Ryobi had a 10" planer out for a long time, and it was popular, and I think that it's still a useful tool for the very reasons you state. Most hardwood is sold in 10" or less widths, and glue-ups are done for things larger. Much beyond 12", and I think it's just as good to have a drum sander, unless you are starting with a tree.

Some people pull the guards off of thier 6" jointer, and can joint about 10" in two passes, and 8" jointers are becoming more and more popular.

A jointer is a pretty simple tool, but there is a LOT of cast iron in one of those machines, because of the beds. That's probably a good part of why the price is high. A 12" jointer would be nice to have, though many woodworkers use S2S lumber, and rarely need to face joint.

I have a 13" planer, but havn't ever sent anything wider than about 9" through it, because the lumber that I buy isn't often wider.

[Pappy]

As Kieth said, the jointer size is limited by price and size/weight. Since most of us have small shops, it isn't practical to have a 12" jointer.

Planer in the 12"-13" range are the most commonly owned/used simply because that is the size of the bench top units.

[RayintheUK]

There's obviously a bit of "demand and supply" going on with these popular sizes too. I've got a combination machine, which handles 10" wide by 6" thick. I've often wished that I could pass a wider-than-10" glue-up through it, but I know that I can't, so I don't fret about it.

The chances of me getting a 36" wide-belt sander (a la Norm) are slightly less than me giving birth, so I tend to plan my construction and finishing steps carefully and I use what I've got quite successfully.

If I was starting over, knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd change anything. A wider planer may be some advantage, but only if you have projects using wide lumber to start with - which is not often a wise choice for stability/warping over time anyway.

A longer jointer would be better, which would automatically mean a wider one too. That said, having a planer that can handle boards wider than you can joint has become the norm (lower case "n"!) and you can imagine that a 6" or 8" benchtop planer wouldn't sell too well!

As it is, I can joint the same size stock as I can thickness. With the machine on a mobile base which rolls away under a fixed bench, it's just about ideal for my current needs. If I had a bigger shop, who knows?

Ray.

[Russianwolf]

If I recall David Marks has a 16 inch planer in his shop that he shows on one of his episodes. The thing is HUGE. He also noted that he bought it used (and I got the impression that that was the only way he could afford it). Imagine the weight of a jointer that is 16 inches wide and beds totaling 6+ foot. The jointer probably weighs in at about a ton. There is just no way most of us can use a machine like that.


I think jointers are larger than typical jointers due to the weight (the beds on a jointer are more important than they are on a planer) and for planing glued up panels. But as was mentioned, In a perfect world we would all have 8 in jointers, 15 inch planers and 36-72" Drum sanders.

[SARGE..g-47]

The advantage of a 8" jointer is obviously that it will handle 2" wider stock in a pass. Brilliant, huh! :>)..

The real advantage revealed IMO is after you take a look at the un-surfaced and S2S hard-wood at your source. Most is between 7" and 8" at the widest point. If you have a 6" jointer, what alternatives does that leave? I can hand-plane stock, but that takes time and requires the proper planes that some don't have nor the time to balance WW, family and job.

My thoughts are to get the 8" jointer if you can afford it. The wider planer is again wider, but it is easier to find a suitable solution after glue-up than getting that original un-surfaced stock prepped for the planer.

Regardless.. you can always find a way. Mind over matter!

[davidtu]

In a perfect world we would all have 8 in jointers, 15 inch planers and 36-72" Drum sanders.

But getting back to the underlying question here--really to understand the "ideal" relationship between jointer & planer sizes--in a perfect world, wouldn't you want the 15" jointer along with that 15" planer so you could face joint the same size as you can plane?

Can you clarify what s2s is... I guess I've been assuming it was face-planed on one face and jointed on one edge... but is it face-planed on two sides? Trying to see why you need a jointer at all for s2s since if one edge was jointed, it'd seem you could just rip the other edge w/ a good blade. REMEMBER: this is the getting started forum! I'm still getting started!

[LarryG]

Ideally, yes, one's jointer and planer should be able to handle stock of the same width. But for all the reasons noted -- cost, size, weight -- most of us end up with jointers considerably smaller than our planers.

I own a 6" jointer and a 13" planer. Both were bought, in part, because they fit my budget and my current shop: I could've saved up my money a while longer and bought an 8" jointer, but there'd have been no room to put it. My long-range plan is to build a larger shop and, at that time, move up to a 12" jointer, a size that will nicely match that of my planer. We'll see how that goes.

S2S usually means surfaced on the two wide faces, leaving the two narrow edges rough. You may find exceptions depending on the supplier. Also, S2S lumber is usually simply planed on both faces, rather than being jointed flat on one face and then planed on the other. Since planing both sides produces a board with two faces that are parallel but is not necessarily flat overall, it's a bit of a crapshoot as to whether the lumber will be usable without further milling (i.e., face-jointing). For this reason, if you own a planer there's really no reason to pay extra for S2S lumber because you can buy rough lumber and plane both sides yourself.

[vaking]

To me it is a lot simpler. Hobbyist woodworker is prepared to shell out $200-$400 per device (Most our tools seem to fit here). Professional can go higher depending on types of projects he/she does, but also usually not obscene numbers (Norm is not included, he does not count the money).
The $200-$400 range buys you a 6" jointer (lower end for benchtop model, higher end for stationary). An 8" jointer is already higher in price and it takes much more space. It is popular among professionals and as its price is gradually coming down it is becoming more popular with hobbyists too. The same range for planer easily buys you 12" and even 13" planer. Making a planer smaller will probably not save much on money or on space, so why bother. Making a 12" jointer is surely possible but will put it out of range for most people. The 10" Combo that Ray described ( I am guessing it is now discontinued Inca) I see as an attempt to combine the 2 devices in one, charge for one what was a combined price for 2 at that time, get a size in between the typical sizes of jointer and planer and at the same time save space in a workshop.

[scorrpio]

Frankly, I don't recall seeing that many planers less than 12" out there, which is why most small shops have a 12" model. Yeah, there are 4" jointers out there, but they are generally of 'el cheapo' variety, and 6" is really the first useful size for any kind of woodwork.

From my POV, the prime distinction between the 6" and 8" jointer is not the width, even though it is the identifying parameter. The REAL distinction are length and mass. 6" jointers are about 40-50" long, but 8" ones are for the most part 75+ and weigh twice as much - meaning you can joint much longer and heavier stock on them.

Having a wider planer makes sense. Some figured woods fare better if you run them through planer at an angle. If you get lumber with at least one face jointed, you can plane to needed thickness.

[Russianwolf]

But getting back to the underlying question here--really to understand the "ideal" relationship between jointer & planer sizes--in a perfect world, wouldn't you want the 15" jointer along with that 15" planer so you could face joint the same size as you can plane?

Can you clarify what s2s is... I guess I've been assuming it was face-planed on one face and jointed on one edge... but is it face-planed on two sides? Trying to see why you need a jointer at all for s2s since if one edge was jointed, it'd seem you could just rip the other edge w/ a good blade. REMEMBER: this is the getting started forum! I'm still getting started!

In a perfect world the Jointer should be as wide or slightly wider than the largest single board you plan on using (within reason). the planer in my opinion should be wider so that you can work on glued-up panels more easily. But since 30+ inch planers aren't widely available, the drum sander takes that load for larger panels as well as thinner/more fragile material.

[SARGE..g-47]

Looks like you guys had a good discussion when I was at work, davidtu. I will add that I would love to have a 12" jointer, a very wide planer and a very large drum sander. But the bottom line is I can't justify them as I don't do any production work.

But, I do prefer buying stock un-surfaced as I get more for less $. I sometimes get S1S or S2S if they have already prepped it and I find exceptional pieces. But even with S2S, you have no gaurantee of being flat on one size if the stock cups after kiln drying and being prepped. Their planing often leaves chatter marks also and some can be pretty deep.

To use our planer in proper prespcetive, you need to have one side "flat". The quickest and easiest way to eliminate "cup" is face joint it on the jointer. If you have 7"-8" stock, you can rip the stock in half to joint it and re-glue latter to cut down waste with a 6" jointer. If you have an 8", you eliminated a step. Same with stock over 8". Vicious cycle and a bigger tool is not always an option. :>)

Edge jointing is not a factor as the face with a 6". Take any "bow" out to give one straight edge. Then rip the other side to 1/16" over width on the TS is my approach. I use a 24 tooth flat rip blade and the saw-blade will not give a finish edge on it's own. Back to the jointer to take that last 1/16" from the ripped side to give me two perfectly straight and smooth edges.

Again.. no matter what size jointer you got to work with, there's a way to circumvent it's short-comings to derive at a satisfactory end result..

[LCHIEN]

I think the 6" jointer and the 13" planer are price points where the utility is adequate and the price is affordable.

S2S means surfaced on the two wide sides, i.e. not edge jointed.

Ideally we should all have 3' wide planers or drum sanders to finish table tops.

[drumpriest]

For table and desk tops, I just go rent some time at a cabinet shop and use thier timesaver. I do want a drum sander of my own though, as I would use it extensively in cutting veneers.

There are also s3s and s4s. s4s is the typical HD lumber. If you go and have a gander at it, you'll see that neither of the edges are remotely straight. Thus even if you bought that stuff, you'd still want a jointer around to fix the lumber.

You can also find lumber that has been "straight line ripped" which is essentially the same kind of thing as using the jointer buddies and cutting a straight line with the Table Saw. Trouble here is that you seldomly get a glue worthy edge doing this either. If you use a great blade, and a great saw, you can get it sometimes. I've done it with the BT3.

One more discussion that I had on here a while ago is the idea of when does a piece get too big to put on a jointer? When I did my desk, I found that the idea of little me lugging 7' long 8" wide pieces of rough oak onto a jointer was a bit tiring, and didn't give great results because of my technique with that size of lumber. So I went out and purchased a 5$ piece of MDF shelving from HD, used it as a refrence edge, and used a pattern bit in my router. Worked great.

[Roger on the Rock]

The newbie in me is shining through!

When I took wood shop in high school, we had two big honking jointers and a planer the size of a small car. We used to just feed the wood through the jointers and made many good sized panels using the planer.

Having just started a small home shop, I'm wondering how to kit it out when it comes to jointer and/or planer. Some are saying don't bother with a jointer...just use a router table to true up edges for gluing. Then when it comes to bigger panels, use a belt sander to finish things off or as stated by drumpriest, rent time at a shop when you need it.

So, my question is do folks get a lot of use out of their 6" jointers and 13" planers. We didn't have a drum sander in HS...where does this fit in?

Thanks in advance.

Roger