Table Top Joinery

[Cain]

I'm in the process of making a sofa table - my first homemade piece of indoor furniture. I'm using red oak because it's the cheapest stainable hardwood that I could find. (I wanted the cheapest in case I screw something up.)

The design has both a lower shelf and a table top that requires joining 3/4" boards. I jointed and planed the boards for the lower shelf and glued them up and I think it looks great.

My buddy was over last night and saw it. He asked me if the boards were tongue and groove. They're not - they are simply butt jointed and glued.

This got me to thinking, should I have used tongue and groove or some other joint instead of a butt joint?

[AAJIII]

Butt Joint

A butt joint properly jointed and glued will be stronger than the surrounding wood. A tongue and grove joint will show on the end on the panel and IMHO not very attractive in this application.

Al

[Tom Miller]

Yep, what Al said.

I sometimes use biscuits along the edge, but only for alignment purposes -- I don't even intentionally put glue in the slots or on the biscuits. It really makes glue up and clamping a lot less tedious.

Regards,
Tom

[SHADOWFOX]

Biscuits joinery really works wonders but since you've already glued up the boards for the lower shelf and you feel that you need to add more support to the joints, you can drill a pocket hole on the inside face of the boards and add pocket hole screws.

[Cain]

Actually, I don't think the joints need any further support. They look fine to me and feel really solid. My buddy's question just got me to wondering if all joined boards should be joined a different way than a butt joint.

But, I have thought about getting a pocket screw jig for future projects. However, I've spent so much on tools recently that I need to slow down for a while.

When I started this hobby a few months ago, I was surprised to learn that glue is used so much in woodworking. I've always thought that nails and screws were used and table tops and shelves were simply cut from plywood.

[LarryG]

When I started this hobby a few months ago, I was surprised to learn that glue is used so much in woodworking. I've always thought that nails and screws were used and table tops and shelves were simply cut from plywood.

Well, a lot of furniture, especially inexpensive furniture, IS built that way -- NTTAWWT, necessarily. Nails and screws can speed production considerably, not just because there's less time wasted waiting for glue to dry but because the mechanical fasteners are substitutes for clamps. And plywood makes our ever-dwindling supplies of attractive woods last longer by using only a thin veneer of the "good stuff" rather than a full-thickness slab. It's also inherently more stable than solid wood, which in some cases will result in a technically superior finished product (although some people still object to plywood simply because it's not "real wood").

[steve-norrell]

Actually, I don't think the joints need any further support. They look fine to me and feel really solid. My buddy's question just got me to wondering if all joined boards should be joined a different way than a butt joint.

But, I have thought about getting a pocket screw jig for future projects. However, I've spent so much on tools recently that I need to slow down for a while.

Cain, for what it is worth from a another 'newbie' I have used the Kreg Pocket Screw system to make a small table top and found the system to be quite useful and, when you are careful, results in an almost seamless table top. I also used glue on the same joints and echo the feeling in this forum that the glued joint is stronger than the wood. Just be real careful to remove any glue that is squeezed out of the joint.

There is no doubt that the screws aid in alignment and make it unnecessary to use clamps. I would also echo some of the other comments on this site about NOT using a power screw driver to tighten the pocket screws. Tighten them up by hand.

Good luck.

[91FE]

come again?

Well, a lot of furniture, especially inexpensive furniture, IS built that way -- NTTAWWT, necessarily.

I checked the FAQ and couldn't find NTTAWWT. Curious minds want to know...WTF it means

[LarryG]

I checked the FAQ and couldn't find NTTAWWT. Curious minds want to know...WTF it means

What, you never watched Seinfeld?

Not That There's Anything Wrong With That.

[Stormbringer]

I checked the FAQ and couldn't find NTTAWWT. Curious minds want to know...WTF it means

Hmmm. The only thing I can think of that would fit the sentence would be Not That Anyone Would Want That reffering to the plywood made furniture. Clearly Larry typoed and added an extra T by mistake.

Ok. Lar, so what does it really stand for...I want to use it in my next thread

Greg

[gerti]

I seem to remember that under certain conditions biscuits joinery might telegraph to the table-top surface?

[cabinetman]

Just a note here about boards being glued up. Look at the ends of the boards and alternate the grain direction , that is, one curved up then one curved down. Make for more stable top, tends to stay more flat, if that's possible. FWIW.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[SARGE..g-47]

Wouldn't hurt anything to let that glue dry for a few days before proceeding. When you glued, you added additional moisture content. Waiting will give the glue time to set up and dry properly, the stock stabalize back to a moisture content consistent overall and determine if any creep is going to occur.

It is important to remove any glue residue that has excessed onto the surface as it won't take stain. A card scraper will skim it off in a whiz. Now, you can sand the surface with your various grits. With that complete, wet and squeeze out a rag with naphtha or mineral spirits on it. Wipe it on the surface and it will clarify any glue residue or scratch marks left from sanding. If you have any, more sanding. If not.. you're good to go finishing.

Regards from a newbie...

SARGE.. g-47

[Ken Weaver]

What Cabinetman said - I got burned by that twice, you'd think I'd learn after the first time.

I do like biscuits better than pocket screws for tops and shelves. Leaves both sides unmarked - I've been known to get it together and decide that what I thought was going to be the bottom actually had better grain than what I planned to be the top. With biscuits I have have the option of reversing.

[drumpriest]

Ken, um, yep, same here. You never know exactly what you will want as your top until you see it completed, and wipe it down, see how it's going to finish. Especially along the glue lines, you can only "read" wood so well.