Novice Ponderance....

[dwolsten]

They confused people talking about the conversion, when they were talking to them in the language we were supposed to go to, Esperanza.

That's Esperanto.

Personally, I think we should all learn a new, common language, in order to eliminate difficulty in communication. In order to not offend anyone, we need to pick a language that almost no one currently speaks: Klingon! Plus, it sounds cool.

[Stytooner]

Oh Man! If we all learned Klingon, then we would have to adopt the measuring system they use, which is sometimes kilometers and sometimes Warp. Just how fast is warp speed anyway? How many miles, kilometers, light years is 1/3 warp speed?
Also I have an issue with the replicators on Star Trek. You tell the computer what you want and how you want it, but they never say how big a portion to replicate. Computer, I want 1/2 a pound of pecan pie. Gimme 5 kilos of pink cotton candy. These things if asked for, might crash the computer or something.
Anyway, I getting to where I only beleive about 1/2 to 3/5ths of what I see on TV anymore.

[Stick]

Oh, really

Yep, really. Half of an inch is half an inch. Half of 25.4mm is 12.7mm. What's half of that? 1/4", or 6.35mm. Half of that? 1/8", or 3.175mm. Half of that? 1/16" or 1.15875mm. Do metric measuring tapes go down to hundred thousandths of millimeters? Of course the same can be said for even metric measurements vs fractional inches. What's easier? Whatever one is used to working with. They're only numbers, doesn't matter which you use. Canada supposedly switched to metric in the mid 1970's, yet all of our dimensioned lumber, steel, paper, fasteners, everything is still all in inches. As are all our tools. I have metric drills, but only because I do machine work on metric built equipment. Very few people here other than machinists own metric tools other than wrenches. Few other than machinists work in decimal inches either. I don't have a problem working in any of the three, but LOML, who's 7 years younger, cannot divide fractions to save her life. Only because she never learned to. I find I do my woodworking in fractional inches, machining in decimal inches, and in metric only if I absolutely have to.

All products sold in Canada must by law be labelled with metric quantities, but no stipulations exist that said quantities be normal metric amounts, hence we get 454g "pounds" of coffee, 355 ml cans of pop and beer, stupid amounts like that! If you went to a butcher and asked for a kilo of meat, he'd look at you like you were from another planet. Realistically it's still sold by the pound, even if the label says 454g.

There's a funny distinction. Those who were schooled before the conversion still think in Imperial. Those after think partly in metric and partly in imperial. A person's height is always in feet and inches. Shooters still think in yards. Distances and speeds to younger people are usually metric. Temperature is a funny one too. Most older people can relate to the below 0°C range, yet for heat, they'll go back to F. Younger people are often the opposite.

Ultimately, they're just numbers. Who cares?

[Stick]

A ruler marked in 1/32 inch gives finer (but still usable) resolution than a ruler marked in mm.

Christopher

Agreed.......and I have them with 1/128 graduations as well.

[mater]

Well, in MY shop, it's because I start out with a nice, even, 2" dimension, mess something up, and semi-recover by skinnying it down to 1-7/8" ...

I know what you mean Larry. I have done that plenty of times myself.

[Tom Hintz]

I have started designing many projects using whole numbers but before long, found myself fitting things in places that came out with fractional components. Say you want a 26"-wide cabinet. If you make standard 1/4"-deep dados for the cross pieces, that leaves an odd fraction because the sides are actually 23/32"-thick. Cut the dados so they leave 1/2" of material in the outside pieces and you can get the cross piece back to a more or less round number but go a bit farther and sometnhing else will be in the fractional range again.
I understand your thought, and it is a good one. Now, if you can figure out how to maintain round numbers all the way through a project you lose your rookie status and become the woodworking king all in one move.
I think it is more likely that fractions are here to stay, like it or not.

So there!

[gjbivin]

I have started designing many projects using whole numbers but before long, found myself fitting things in places that came out with fractional components. Say you want a 26"-wide cabinet. If you make standard 1/4"-deep dados for the cross pieces, that leaves an odd fraction because the sides are actually 23/32"-thick. Cut the dados so they leave 1/2" of material in the outside pieces and you can get the cross piece back to a more or less round number but go a bit farther and sometnhing else will be in the fractional range again.
I understand your thought, and it is a good one. Now, if you can figure out how to maintain round numbers all the way through a project you lose your rookie status and become the woodworking king all in one move.
I think it is more likely that fractions are here to stay, like it or not.

So there!

And as the project gets more complicated, with more parts that have to fit together, the fractions can get insane. Let's see ... two 23/32" sides, three 5-7/8" drawers spaced 3/4" apart...

I've always thought the SI (metric) system was superior to the Imperial -- we might as well call what we use "U.S. units", because we're the only country in the world, aside from Liberia and Burma, that isn't metric. Superior not just because of the use of decimals, but because the units are interrelated (a liter of water weighs 1 Kg, etc.)

Quick, how many inches in a mile? I can figure almost instantly that there are 100,000 cm in a km. An acre is -- what? -- 43560 sq. ft. A hectare is 10,000 sq. m.

But I have to admit, I mainly use inches and fractions when woodworking, mainly because that's the way the stock, tools, and the plans are sized. I do use the metric side of the ruler to calculate centers or subdivide lengths into anything besides halves or quarters, though.

Maybe decimal inches are the answer?

[vaking]

If you want to avoid fractions you need to use millimeters and even that is not a guarantee. This, however, isn't the same as using metric system. The primary unit in a current metric system is meter, not millimeter. Millimeters in Europe are commonly used by people in metal-working industries, machinery, etc. Carpenters by default measure in Centimeters (10 millimeters or 1/100 of meter). Prior to the current metric system Europe had another metric system where primary was centimeter, not meter. In the current metric system primary measure of mass is a kilogramm, in the previous one primary was a gramm and it was a measure of weight, not mass. In the current metric system weight is measured in Newtons.
Is everybody confused enough?

[LCHIEN]

I can see we're headed back for the bob unit, where a bob was something like 1/24th of an inch.

And whatever happened to cubits? If it was good enough for Noah and God, by golly it should be good enough for us.

[gjbivin]

If you want to avoid fractions you need to use millimeters and even that is not a guarantee. This, however, isn't the same as using metric system. The primary unit in a current metric system is meter, not millimeter. Millimeters in Europe are commonly used by people in metal-working industries, machinery, etc. Carpenters by default measure in Centimeters (10 millimeters or 1/100 of meter). Prior to the current metric system Europe had another metric system where primary was centimeter, not meter. In the current metric system primary measure of mass is a kilogramm, in the previous one primary was a gramm and it was a measure of weight, not mass. In the current metric system weight is measured in Newtons.
Is everybody confused enough?

It seems to me that most people don't care what the SI base unit is when measuring; you just use the most convenient unit, mm, cm, or m, for the task. Switching between them is almost-literally a no-brainer. As far as accuracy goes, I usually estimate tenths of millimeters when measuring; interpolation being a skill I learned using slide rules back in the days before calculators.

If you want confusion, in the U.S. (English) system, you have avoirdupois ounces and pounds vs. troy ounces and pounds (and also a thing oxymoronically called the "metric pound"). Then there are Imperial gallons vs. U.S. gallons, "wet" ounces vs. "dry" ounces. "pound" usually is used as a unit of mass, but it also can be used for force (in structural engineering) -- in which case the unit of mass is the "slug". "Statute" miles and "nautical" miles...

[IBBugsy]

Well, I'm glad I asked a simple question!

[Wood_workur]

Oh, really

don't worry Rod, my 6" rule has 1/322 and 1/2 mm markings. (along with an inch of 1/64, good for tuning the ts)

[knimac]

Sort of Metric

gjbivin said "we might as well call what we use "U.S. units", because we're the only country in the world, aside from Liberia and Burma, that isn't metric."

Actually while Canada went metric many years ago, and we now talk in degrees C and mm of rain (cm of snow) and litres of gas, woodworking and dyi type projects and materials in general are referred to in inches and feet. I choose from 28, 30 or 32" doors, replacement windows are measured in inches, studs are 16" on centre, I buy material in bd.ft. from my supplier, 2X's and 8' X4' plywood 3/4" thick etc. at the BORG.

While I agree the math seems simpler in the metric system, I just can't get comfortable in trying to re-think how I design/cut/fit in cm and mm.

Heck I still find myself doubling the temp in C and adding thirty to get a degrees F approximation of how hot or (cold) it really is

[Russianwolf]

I work in neither inches or cm. I work in the LOML scale of "I want it to fit right here". I size it accordingly.

[JR]

And whatever happened to cubits? If it was good enough for Noah and God, by golly it should be good enough for us.

Riiight.



What's a cubit.




Courtesy of Bill Cosby