I am currently building a cabinet system in my two car garage. I am currently putting together the wall cabinets. The carcass is made out of MDF. My question is for the face frame material and construction. I bought some 1 X 4 x 8 pine at menards last night because they had it on sale for $1.89 a piece. Can I build the face frame out of pine? I am a newbie so pardon me if this seems like a stupid question. Also I ma trying to figure out what is the best way to attach the face frame to the carcass wether to use biscuits and glue the front edge of the carcass to attach the face frame or should I nail and glue the face frame to the carcass? Greatly appreciate the help!
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Last edited by SHADOWFOX; 01-07-2008, 10:50 PM.Chris
"The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth." -Pierre Abelard 11th Century philosopher. -
'am a newbie too and taking some cabinet making classess...
We are using pine for face frames, and we just made sure that if we had to saw thru the knots, those knots were tighly seated... cracked/loosely-seated knots can pop out causing saw-safety issues as well as frame-integrity issues.
If you are intending to 'learn by making mistakes' :-) on this project and eventually build kitchen/vanity cabinets, you may want to try out pocket screws using a jig.
/venkat -
Pine should be absolutely fine.
To attach the face frame to the carcass, the easy way is to use brad nails and putty over if appearance is critical. Biscuits seems like a real hard way to do it due to the criticality of aligning more than one row of biscuits. If you have an air brad nailer you can attach it in about a minute, more if you use glue which may or may not be necessary.
Using pocket screws, suggested earlier, would be OK to build the FF, but not much use when attaching the FF.
Loring in Katy, TX USA
If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questionsComment
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Thank you for the quick responses. If I use a brad nail to attach the face frame to the MDF carcass. I am scared that I may split or crack the MDF edge. Is there a certain way of nailing this to ensure that the edge do not split? Before nailing the face frames do i need to put a glue on the carcass edge that meets the face frame?Chris
"The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth." -Pierre Abelard 11th Century philosopher.Comment
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I'm actually going to disagree with Loring on this one (not a very common thing). Pocket holes work great for attaching the face frame to the cabinet, that's what I did on my kitchen cabinets. From the inside of the carcass, drill pocket holes going to the front on the cabinet. Put the face frame on the floor and then put the carcase on top (back can't be attached. Line it up and screw it in. Use plugs to fill in the holes if necessary. On a side that the outside won't show, put the holes there instead and don't bother with the plugs.Originally posted by LCHIEN
Since I don't have a brad nailer, this was by far the easiest method for me. I beleive that Kreg shows this method on their web page.
JimComment
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You definitely need to glue the face frame - the brads will hold it in place while the glue cures, but would not be enough on their own to swing a pair of doors and a faceframe from. Brush on the glue on all the edges, then go back over them again to make sure you account for any soak-in, as raw MDF edges can be fairly porous (unless you're using a branded, moisture-resistant type).Originally posted by SHADOWFOX
You don't say what thickness MDF the carcass will be made from, so I'm assuming 3/4" If I'm right, don't worry about splitting the MDF, just nail it in the center. Shooting brads in with an air nailer will not cause any problems, unless you get one go on a skew, or nail it too near one face.
Over here, we tend to use full overlay doors on European hinges, rather than face frames. In a workshop situation, that's what I've done and the added advantage is that they're far easier to clean out - no frame, so sweeps right out in one go!
When using pocket hole screws to join your faceframe, be sure to glue and clamp the frame joints before inserting the screws - clamp both horizontally and vertically to prevent any misalignment of the frame caused by the screws pushing the stiles from the rails. Don't overtighten and take care you've got the correct pocket screws.
Good luck - be sure to let us know how you get on and post any further questions you may have.
Ray.Did I offend you? Click here.Comment
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For what its worth here is the way I construct face frames for pretty much any cabinet piece I build.
1. Build the carcass; make certain it is as square and true to plumb as possible.
2. I test fit the outside rails allowing about a 1/32” overhang and truing then to square
3. I measure the stiles to a rough measurement and crosscut them on the BT3
4. I repeat the cross cuts and test fit each time as I gingerly remove stock until I have a tight and square fit of the stiles to the rails
5. I normally can set the stiles flush to the top of the carcass but if the stile has a slight bow I test fit and hand plane it flush to the carcass
6. After I check everything for fit and square I use a ruler to mark the pieces for biscuits.
7. Disassemble the frame cut the biscuit slots reset and dry fit.
8. If all is well (plumb and square with a tiny bit of overhang on the rails) I apply a good carpenters or poly glue to the biscuits, and along the face of the carcass and assemble with lots of clamps. I suggest an extended open glue so you will have plenty of time to work the face frame.
9. Clamp at several locations across the frame and frame to carcass.
10. I them shoot 18 gauge brads through the face frame into the carcass. Even with MDF I think that brads will help with holding the frame to the carcass. A note on the brads, with ¾ face frame dimensional lumber I generally use 18 gauge 1 ¼” length brads. This seems to be the best length to reduce the chance that the brad will deflect and exit the inside face of the MDF. If you are worried about splitting the rail ends stay back from the end about 1 ½”.
11. After all this is complete and the glue is set I remove the clamps and using a flush cut bit and my plunge router I trim the 1/32” overhang off the rails for a perfectly flush fit to the outside of the carcass.
Gosh I know this sounds like a lot of work but it goes pretty quick once you get all your setups in place. The best thing about it is that it is very strong and the technique can be used on pretty much any cabinet regardless of size or materials.Comment
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You are right, now that I think about it, it would be strong and not show. Seems like it would be a bit of a pain to install, though. Don't you have to drill and screw from the inside pointed to the outside? Seems quite awkward.Originally posted by jzieglerLoring in Katy, TX USA
If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questionsComment
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It's not the easiest thing to do. If I had a brad nailer, I'd probably do as you suggest. But, having the pocket hole jig (two, actually), it's not too bad. Using this method, I install the face frame before the back panel.Originally posted by LCHIEN
JimComment
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Well, here's what I do. Fistly, I tend to run the side parts of the FF then entire length, which is different form your picture, but it's just estetic. I build the face frame using pocket holes and screws. Then to attach it, if there are surfaces that won't be seen (like that bottom of the bottom shelf of a floor cabinet), I use pocket holes and screws there, and I use biscuits elsewhere, and clamp it on. It's crazy strong that way.
Now you are going into MDF, which is notorious for not holding fasteners well, and I havn't used biscuits in MDF, but I don't see why they'd not work.Keith Z. Leonard
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LCHIEN
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