s3s: what should I expect?

[fergusburger]

Today I picked out about 8 bf of red oak at a local hardwood lumber supplier and had them joint and plane the boards to s3s. When the workman returned with my boards I was surprised and disappointed to see both faces with long lines running the length of the board from slight differences in thicknessduring planing. It was as if the knives of the planer were incorrectly set and were cutting different thicknesses down the length of the board. Also, the square edge had a fair bit of chatter.

I was expecting two smooth sides and one square edge that would need finish sanding, but not two hours with the palm sander to get the grooves out. Did I expect too much? I know I should asked at the time, but I didn't want to be rude and frankly didn't know whether this was normal or not.

Thanks for your help,

Tom

[Tom Hintz]

Raised lines in a planed board are usually caused by nicks in the planer knives. Usually those types of lines sand away quickly (I use a random orbital sander mostly) but if they took that long, there was serious problems with the machine or the operators technique. Maybe both.
When you are paying to have lumber prepped, I don't think it is rude to question a lousy job. If the people at the yard think that kind of surfacing is acceptable, it's time to find another yard.
This is one of the reasons I worked at getting my own jointer and planer. I can do the work myself, produce wood the exact dimensions I need at the moment and if the job turns out bad, the responsible person is right there to do it over.

[gmack5]

I agree with Tom H. 100%!
If they did it for free that's a different matter.

But if they charged you extra over the cost of rough Sawn Stock, then it should be done right and to your satisfaction.

I'd have a little talk with the Manager, if it were me.

[newbie2wood]

Many lumber suppliers cater to mostly construction clients and are not overly concerned about details. It does sound like either sloppy technique in surfacing or that the blades are nicked. Like anything else that you buy, if you are not satisfy don't pay for it. I would go to another lumber supplier and check to see if there is a difference in quality. At least this way, you won't have any doubt when you buy s3s.
________
The Cliff Condo Pattaya

[LCHIEN]

Today I picked out about 8 bf of red oak at a local hardwood lumber supplier and had them joint and plane the boards to s3s. When the workman returned with my boards I was surprised and disappointed to see both faces with long lines running the length of the board from slight differences in thicknessduring planing. It was as if the knives of the planer were incorrectly set and were cutting different thicknesses down the length of the board. Also, the square edge had a fair bit of chatter.
....

Tom

Not quite sure from the description what the problem might be.
Planers usually have 2 or 3 sets of blades arrayed around a rotating cutterhead that operate in series, not side by side to make multiple (finer) cuts per revolution of the cutterhead.
The usual failure is when a planer hits a nail or hard object in wood and it puts a nick in all three of the blades. Then, it leaves a raised line the width and shape of the nick down the boards. They need to replace or realign the blades (one solution is to shift one or more blades slightly sideways so the nicks are no longer in line).

The other failure is to not plane enough so that you still have some rough areas showing, they'll be lower than the others.

The former (nicks) should be easier to fix, the latter (not planed enuf) would reqire huge amounts of sanding.

I don't understand how you could have two thicknesses like with a step if they used a wide enough planer. If one blade was set too low it would leave all the work to the highest blade and be less smooth.

I'm not sure that S2S or S3S includes thickness planing to a constant thickness, just that the sides are planed, although good planing would leave it more or less that way if it was uniform thickness to start with.

I'd take it back.

[fergusburger]

Here's a picture of what I mean

Loring, I've attached a picture of a face of one of the boards showing the strips thta I am talking about. These raised strips are each about a half inch wide (it is roughly a 5" wide board). They certainly are not from nicks in the blades. It almost looks like the blade was segmented rather than one piece across the width.



It is more of a mystery to me at this point rather than a big deal. I've done the sanding and am on to the next step. But I will probably look elsewhere for hardwood in the future. Actually, now that I know what I should expect, I may go back to the shop with that remaining piece and ask them whether this is their standard finish to s3s.

Thanks for your comments,

Tom

[onedash]

those are from nicked blades. I have even gotten some like that from woodcraft. I always run them through my planer though to get them to 3/4" usually so that takes care of almost all problems. I got a nick in my blades too. So I try to work around it if I can. If not I sand it off.

[Tom Slick]

the two lines running the length of the board are from nicks in the blades. the lines going across the board are from them using a feed speed that was too fast. they probably were taking off alot in each pass also adding to the problem..

[LCHIEN]

the two lines running the length of the board are from nicks in the blades. the lines going across the board are from them using a feed speed that was too fast. they probably were taking off alot in each pass also adding to the problem..

Yup.
A wide nick (half an inch) could be from hitting a really hard knot or a mineral inclusion.

[scorrpio]

Production-grade planers, in my experience, are more likely to have a spiral cutterhead with carbide inserts, rahter than straight knives. If a couple inserts are worn out or missing, this could also be the reason. And while many planers include speed settings for 'dimensioning' and 'finish' cuts, the guys at yard likely just keep it on dimensioning to have things done fast.

[agent511]

I am looking at the picture and not seeing what the OP is seeing. I don't see a raised strip 1/2" wide. I see, like most of the others, two raised lines from two minor nicks in the blades. These should sand out, or better yet scrape out with a cabinet scraper fairly easy. A scraper costs a few dollars and is perfect for this type of problem. The smaller ridges running across the piece are from the speed of the planer. I think these also can be expected - I don't think we usually can expect or should expect wood to be planed to final finish.

That is why most of us, if deciding to be serious about woodworking, invest in a jointer and planer. Then you can be personally responsible for the condition of the blades.