First Pens and Razor

[poolhound]

Made these this afternoon. My first pen turnings and while not particularly complicated I can see there is a learning curve here to get things just right. Turning with the bushings is interesting as I can see you kind of need to sneak up on them. leave to much and there is too much sanding, get too close and you can cut too much or you have the possibility to sand past the bushings. I did destroy a Cocobolo blank when the barrel trimmer ripped it apart. i guess that for some woods the disc sanding method may be a better option. I also noticed as I sanded that you do get some contamination as some of the fines from the metal bushings get into the grain of the wood.

I also used this as an exercise in experimentation on finishing. It does seem that there are many different options and combinations. The razor and stand I did with the BLO/CA (thin) method and then sanded the finish with the micro mesh pads. The stylus pen I did starting with a coat of thin CA and then 3 or 4 coats of stick fast polish (satin) and then buffed out with micromesh.

I did get some EEE ultrashine and that worked really great. The slimline was sanded to 600 and then I used the EEE and added a coat of wax. Probably not very durable but it feels really nice.

I must admit I am a little confused as many of the techniques seem to be a mix of sanding, finish, buffing and polishing. Some combinations seem redundant, e,g, the stick fast satin and gloss are in essence micro abrasive that take you to around 1500. The pads start there and go to 12000. do you use both, on or the other. There also seem to be sooo many different versions of using the CA as a finish, some say use activatior, some say no. Fat seed o slow speed many swear by both.

I understand it all depends on the desired mix of look, feel, durability etc I would appreciate some general wisdom on best practices from all you pen turners out there to help lessen my learning curve.

[leehljp]

Jon, you learned more in a couple of pens and a razor set than most do in months. Find what works best for you. And then you will find that your dry environment will affect finishes somewhat different than that "perfect solution" from someone on the shores of the Great Lakes, the Atlantic, Gulf or West Coast.

I like the finish on the razor and stand. Looks great! The pens are turned to size, something first timers often miss. LOML still has the second pen I made that the wood is noticeable proud. It irritates me to this day that she still uses it. I think she does it to show me my imperfections!

I did a few pens in EEE and was very happy with them . . . and then by the time I decided to give them to a few friends, they looked blotchy. So I basically gave up on EEE. But it is a good wax to use over a solid CA, lacquered or other catalyzed finish, just not on wood. Wax on wood furniture works well such as on a dining room table that you only eat on for special occasions (for people with a breakfast/lunch table in or near the kitchen). Dining room tables and other such wood furniture hold EEE/Wax type finishes well for about a week or more because they are not handled a dozen times a day. What is not realized is how many times a day we handle the wood pen. If the pen is re-waxed daily, it will work.

Bushings: count them as consumables! They wear down. Use calipers (Get a good metal pair from Hf) for determining the size of your turnings and don't worry about the bushings getting nicked with your chisels. Some people feel much more comfortable with a mandrel and some don't. Turning Between Centers (TBC) only allows you to turn one blank at a time VS 2 on the mandrel. Being able to visualize both blanks simultaneous is a big help for some. Mandrels for me worked fine for a while but they just introduced too much potential for play and error, which does creep up too often for me and some. TBC gives more control and is more simple to use - for those that use it regularly.

One thing I noticed about two different groups of people: First time pen turners who have NO experience with wood and finish - VS - first time turners with a good wood background. You most definitely are in the 2nd group as your wood working experience show up in your discussion. It is just easier communicating with an experienced woodworker!

[BadeMillsap]

That razor and stand look GREAT! Very nicely done!

[twistsol]

The razor looks almost too nice to use.

[poolhound]

I got jump started into turning when I bought somebody's whole setup last year. Its great that I got lots of stuff that saved me having to make choices about what to buy. I have of course already spent loads more on other turning goodies. His setup came with 2 pen mandrels including 2 mandrel savers, one may be adjustable. If you are turning between centers doesnt that double the work for a two piece pen? Do you go all the way through to finish and polish this way or do you finish with an alternate method? Also some of the pen blanks are much smaller than any of the drive centers I have, I take it you can get mini ones?

You are right on about the finish/polish issue for flat work and I am well versed in that. It seems we (me anyway) are always striving for that hand rubbed look and feel with the durability of a varnish. I rarely use the high gloss buffed look in my general woodworking so its interesting to see how it is common in the pen or small turning world. Although I do like to make things that would be touched e.g. boxes nothing would have the same amount of 'finger time' as a pen or razor. Its a whole new world of finishing. If one is looking for a good durable finish I can see why the CA method is popular as it is very quick and gives a good result. Are there any other commonly used finishes that would give the same level of durability. I expect one could use Wipe on Poly or lacquer but that would seem to have to take way longer and you would probably want to do it off the lathe so you can keep working. I guess you could put it back on the lather to buff/polish or use one of those buffing systems.

I do keep hearing about friction polishes that some seem to use interchangeably with finish. I would have thought this would be used after the finish is applied. Is there something that allows you to go from sanding to done in one step and adds the protection and shine?

[leehljp]

Is there something that allows you to go from sanding to done in one step and adds the protection and shine?

CA, catalyzed lacquer, some polys like gym floor poly. IF you are thinking of waxes and polishes, no. Waxes and polishes are not created to handle sweaty palms, 120° heat in a car or on a desk with the sun shining one it and then in the humidity of a shirt pocket. That is a reality that wood furniture does not have to face. Polishes and waxes won't do just because we "want it to."

Here is what I wrote on IAP back in 2009:

Finishes such as this and waxes along with polishes work well IF consideration is taken for its purpose and a pen's use.

Here is the problem: Our heritage use of finishes, waxes and polishes! Before modern day finishes like Polyurethane, or other clear/translucent finishes including certain varnishes, shellacs and lacquers, - polishes, waxes and oils were used to provide protective finishes. So far, so good on this aspect of finishes.

However, WOOD finishes as a protectant was cleaned and polished at least weekly, usually every other day and in some cases daily. People with enough wealth to buy fine furniture with oil, wax and polish finishes had servants/miads that cleaned, waxed and polished these items on a REGULAR basis. For people who had fine furniture but did not have servants, before the advent of the working mom/wife, the wife (usually) cleaned and waxed at least weekly.

Because most of us on this forum are men, we give no thought to what our moms did (or maids) for upkeep on fine furniture. Instead, we only remember the fine wood feel of polished, waxed, oiled wood.

Now to get to pens - Pens are in contact with acidic human oils far more than furniture. And we are not used to the ritual cleaning that went on with the fine furniture that we grew up with. Pens will need far more cleaning than furniture because of the nature of where the pen is stored and how it is used.

If that consideration is taken into account and the user is willing to give that kind of daily considerations to the upkeep of the pen, then it should work fine. I noticed that while the maker claims it is different than other finishes, the wood is still wood and as you mentioned the acidic hands will be in touch with the wood. In this case - think of kitchen cabinets that have been well used. Dirt and grime build up on the corners and have to be cleaned. In pens that leave the grain exposed even though properly oiled, waxed, finished, the dirt will still get into the pores and it still will have to be cleaned regularly IMO.

I love tung oil finished wood. But on a pen, it would require plenty of cleaning, not to mention what it might do to a white shirt on a hot humid day.

You can put a satin finish on or you can use CA and polish it to 3200/3600 MicroMesh and make it look satin without the shine. Been there and done that and it works.
A link:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/...t-shine-32496/

Scroll down and read the late Russ Fairfield's comments about the tactile feel.

PART 2

If you are turning between centers doesnt that double the work for a two piece pen? Do you go all the way through to finish and polish this way or do you finish with an alternate method?

Double the work - no way. But it does depend on how you look at it. Look at the number of steps you go through to put two blanks onto a mandril. ferrel, bushing, blank, bushing, ferrel, bushing (or a double bushing,) blank, bushing, ferrel, nut. Now drop a ferrel or the end nut and go chase it, put it back on. AS to a TBC, bushing, blank, bushing.

It is kinda like the John Deer mower commercial - "It isn't how fast you mow; Its how well you mow fast."

Seriously, there are some people whose priorities is time and how quick they can finish a pen for sale. These guys who do it quickly for sale do it for either their lively hood or to supplement their income. These guys know how to do it fast and quality.

With that caveat, for me and most of the guys that started turning pens way back when, it isn't how fast we turn, it is the quality that we turn. Some do it with mandrels, some do it with TBC. It is not a double the work. Each piece gets its on attention. The outcome is the important part, not the method. Which ever method works best is what is best.

That said, I will be honest, I have dropped and chased ferrels and nuts, and had flexing mandrels enough that I personally decided to give it up - for the most part. There are times when a mandrel is beneficial for me. There may come a time when you notice the end of a just turned and finished blank, and notice that the wood is about 1/100th of an inch thicker on one side of the finely finished blank. Out of Round (not technically correct terminology), or not concentric, (technically correct), or egg shaped or oval. Not immediately noticeable but noticeable by you. That comes from ill fitting tail stock point in the divot of the madrel, (forgot the right terminology), or the tail stock point has a miniscule almost unnoticeable burr, or using a tail stock meant for wood instead of a mandrel; or a bent mandrel, or too much pressure when you pull up the tail stock, or flexing because of slightly too much pressure with an ever so slightly dulling chisel.

I know turners who know all of this, and yet through practice and experience know how to overcome these. I know how also to overcome those problems. But I like the simplicity of the TBC simply from not having to use so many parts and chase them when I drop them; and then to work on one blank at a time, knowing that each is finished to its best.

It doesn't really matter which, it is far more important in - which works best for the way you work and think.

Also some of the pen blanks are much smaller than any of the drive centers I have, I take it you can get mini ones?

Live Center for tail stock:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H340...campaign=zPage
Drive Center for head stock
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H578...campaign=zPage

These fit into most bushings on TBC. I have a set that fits into the tubes of slimlines.

[poolhound]

Thanks Hank, lots of great information and the picture of the 2 pens finished in gloss and satin with CA was very interesting. Why specifically the Gym Floor Poly? Is there some property that allows you to wipe on multiple coasts quickly and have it cure right there on the lathe or is it more to do with its durability? I have seen threads of some folks who seem to use a combination of CA + WOP although have not yet found any details as to quite how they do it and what benefit it has. It seems to me that one or the other would be fine. Not sure how quick you could put on coats of WOP let alone a full strength version.

To sum up everything, I think what you are saying is in order to improve our wood finishing options we need servants!

[leehljp]

Thanks Hank, lots of great information and the picture of the 2 pens finished in gloss and satin with CA was very interesting. Why specifically the Gym Floor Poly? Is there some property that allows you to wipe on multiple coasts quickly and have it cure right there on the lathe or is it more to do with its durability? I have seen threads of some folks who seem to use a combination of CA + WOP although have not yet found any details as to quite how they do it and what benefit it has. It seems to me that one or the other would be fine. Not sure how quick you could put on coats of WOP let alone a full strength version.

Gym floor poly: Something that is tough. Most finishes for walls and cabinets, beds and other furniture do not go through the grind that a pen does. A gym floor or wood boat/ship paints are more indicative of harsh treatments similar to pens. BUT these do take longer to cure. Most polys and lacquers and shellacs don't hold up well to the rough treatment of pens. We rarely think about pens being in such contrasting environments as outside, HOT cold, humid, acidic hands and sweat and key chains and pen knives and coins banging into it. These "hard" poly's, lacquers, shellacs and varnishes weren't meant for that.

The few pens that do NOT go through this kind of treatment on a regular basis are usually high quality fountain pens whose owners pay $1000.00 or more and keep them in cases and carry them in cases. The rest of us don't.

Your razor blade will not go through anywhere near the rough changes of a pen. It will stay in one place, fairly humid with fairly mild temperature changes.

To sum up everything, I think what you are saying is in order to improve our wood finishing options we need servants!

LOML told me early on that she is my wife, not my mother!