BT3100 vs Ridgid TS3650 Help!

**Mainemarc** · 05-29-2005, 09:40 PM

Hi Maderawood:

The BT3100 and the Ridgid TS3650 are sort of an apples and oranges comparison. The Ridgid is a slightly updated take on the traditional contractor saw. It's strengths include ruggedness and durability. It's weaknesses include mediocre cross-cutting accuracy (by virtue of the smallish standard miter gauge), a large shop footprint (due to the motor assembly hanging off the back) and relatively poor dust collection.

The BT3100 is a lightweight tablesaw that defies easy categorization. It shares certain features with the hybrid, benchtop and even the cabinet saw categories. Its advantages include cutting precision, adjustability, good dust collection and a small shop footprint. Its disadvantages include less robust construction, a relatively small fixed table surface and potentially a higher requirement of user involvement to dial in and maintain settings (the latter point is subject to considerable debate).

My sense is that the 13 amp induction motor on the Ridgid is going to be comparable in power to the 15 amp universal motor in the Ryobi.

You might want to re-read what you saw in Wood Magazine. First of all, blade scoring isn't a function of motor type (induction vs universal) per se. It's dependent on the saw being properly aligned, the quality of the blade, and the type and precision of the power transmission system.

And the Ridgid *is* belt-driven, as are just about all contractor saws. Belt-drive tends to smooth the power transfer and will actually help reduce blade scoring.

You may have gotten the impression that table saws powered by universal motors tend to have more problems with blade scoring because they are usually direct-drive models (the motor shaft is the blade arbor). With no isolation from motor vibration, blade scoring can be a problem. But the Ryobi BT3100 is the exception to the rule: it's a belt-drive table saw powered by a universal motor. It's known to produce an extremely clean, smooth cut.

Dust collection with the BT3100 is effective and easy. The blade beneath the table surface is fully enclosed in a cast aluminum shroud that feeds directly into a dust port in the rear. It's sized to accomodate a standard size shop vac nozzle, but can also be fitted to a full-blown woodworking dust collectin system with and adaptor.

Both the Ryobi and the Ridgid are very good table saws. If you have the money, tend to be hard on your tools and have ample shop space, the Ridgid might be a better choice. But the Ryobi is a superb tool first and foremost and it also happens to be an outstanding value at about half the price of most contractor saws.

The last thing I'd add to the list of reasons to consider the Ryobi is BT3Central itself. The members here possess an incredible amount of knowledge, experience and sheer woodworking genius. It's sometimes hard to really appreciate what a tremendous resource this website can be.

HTH.

**LCHIEN** · 05-29-2005, 10:19 PM

Marc has already givens some thoughtful answers.
Re-reading your questions, it seems to me you seem to be a little confused.

They are both belt-driven saws; this is common in most of the bigger table saws. The BT3100 is unusual in that it has a universal motor.

I think the real difference is in what you want to do with the saw you buy.

My presentation would be this:

The Ridgid is a contractor style saw. With its cast iron construction and induction motor, it is suited for industrial level work, where you use it nearly 100% of the time to cut timbers and framing and are supplying those that do the assembly.

The Ryobi BT3100 is a hobbyist woodworking saw. Its lighter weight and more portable and the sliding rails and movable tables give you the same range of support and crosscut. Additional accessory rails can expand the rip capacity to over 70 inches. The saw is very flixible from the standboint of attaching things and lending itself to specialty jigs and fixtures, in addition to the accessories already offered. With the universal motor it's probably suited to intermittent duty where you cut some pieces and then assemble, then cut some more. In a typical hour of hobby woodworking I probably average 5-10 minutes of cutting and the rest measuring, fitting, and assembling. I'm not saying its a flimsy saw, but they made an intelligent balance of accuracy, weight, cost and adequate ruggedness for the purpose.

It does have a blade shroud that funnels most of the dust to a vacuum or DC port in the back. It has a lot of other good features and what I particularly like about this saw is its ability to give clean, precise and accurate cuts for my hobby work. To some extent the neat Sliding miter table and the three-point locking rip fence are unique design elements in this saw that contribute to the precision. With its modular construction, it can definately be a gadgeteer's delight if you so desire, but its not necessary.

All these points are well covered in other posts here at BT3Central - you would do well to search and read articles in the BT3000/BT3100 section and also the FAQ in the first post of the getting started section.

As for the RPM speed difference, that has not been discussed much.
If more teeth per inch is the conventional wisdom for smoother, cleaner cuts, then the faster speed should also lean toward cleaner cuts in that more teeth per second will hit the wood, all else being equal. The Ryobi stock blade is renowned for its clean cut, maybe thats part of the reason.

**Knottscott** · 05-30-2005, 08:29 AM

Welcome to the site! You'll find the TS to be the foundation of most wwing shops, and selection is one of the more critical choices you'll need to make. I agree that these two saws are very different animals, but I doubt you'll find many of the Ridgid 3650s employed to cut rough frame work in an assembly situation on a regular basis. Portable jobsite saws have all but replaced the contractor saw on the worksite for that task. That's why we're seeing the introduction of hybrid saws with internally mounted motors to fill the niche contractor saws have been filling in the past decade or so...no more need for the motor hanging out the back for quick disassembly. You're far more likely to find the Ridgid used as a stationary saw in a nice hobbyist or small pro shop to build furniture and cabinets. A saw like the Ridgid with it's cast iron trunnions should last a lifetime with minor maintenance. The large cast iron surface is the same size as a standard cabinet saw surface and offers alot of stability. Many folks like the added depth especially in front of the blade.

You should be able to get good accuracy with either saw. One requires alignment know-how and for the SMT and fence to function as advertised, the other will benefit from a simple crosscut sled or aftermarket miter gauge, but will still do fine with the stock gauge. The footprint differences are obvious, but the 3650 comes with a very good built in mobile base. There have been some quality issues with the Ridgid's arbor too. They've addressed it and the odds are now heavily in your favor of getting a non-defective unit, but they will offer arbor replacement and/or service if needed. All tools including the 3650 and BT have some quality quirks sooner or later. Speaking of service, I believe Rigdid recently reintroduced their lifetime warranty....something to consider if it's important to you.

Proper alignment and proper choice of blades will have more impact on the perceived power of the saw than the amperage rating, though induction motors typically have some advantages in power and longevity...they can also be converted easily to run on 220v. You can barely hear an induction motor run...the blade whirring through the air will make up the vast majority of the noise, the blade cutting through the wood will drown out the air noise. Both saws are belt driven, but you'll find the Ridgid belt to be considerably stronger...the BT's belts are designed to give way to spare the motor in case binding or stalling situations occur.

The blade the comes with the 3650 is junk that I'd keep around only for cutting non-critical or high risk wood. The blade on the BT is pretty good...figure on spending an extra $30-$40 to get a comparable blade for the Ridgid. You'd do well to get a decent 20 - 24T ripping blade either way. Both saws have a similar blade shroud that funnels to a DC port.

I read about alot of satisfied owners of each saw. Many have posted about being pleased with the switch from the BT to the 3650, but I hear very few stories in the other direction. Only you can decide which tool best suits your needs or whether or not the 3650 is worth the extra cash. Ridgid does have a forum, but it offers no where near the proprietary knowledge for using the 3650 that the BT site does for the 3100.

If space is a consideration (even if not), I'd seriously consider looking at one of the three new Craftsman hybrids...they frequently go on sale for 10-20% off, and sometimes 30%. Hitachi has a hybrid of sorts at Lowes also, but I'm less impressed with than the others. Good luck with your decision!

**LinuxRandal** · 05-30-2005, 08:46 AM

I looked at both refurbished at Cummins tools when I bought mine. One other difference of note (at least to me) was the Rigid 3650 didn't have the depth of cut that the Ryobi 3100 has. As for the motor amperage, I thought that all of the new 3100's were the 13 amp motor, anyone know for sure on this?

The reasons I choose the BT over the 3650, the ease to get the saw into my basement shop, the accuracy, depth of cut, accessories, this forum, the expanability to a wider table, cost verses use performance.

**LCHIEN** · 05-30-2005, 10:03 PM

quote:Originally posted by LinuxRandal

I looked at both refurbished at Cummins tools when I bought mine. One other difference of note (at least to me) was the Rigid 3650 didn't have the depth of cut that the Ryobi 3100 has.

That's an advantage the Universal motor gives it, smaller motor, less clearance issues below the table top.

quote:
As for the motor amperage, I thought that all of the new 3100's were the 13 amp motor, anyone know for sure on this?

The reasons I choose the BT over the 3650, the ease to get the saw into my basement shop, the accuracy, depth of cut, accessories, this forum, the expanability to a wider table, cost verses use performance.

The BT3100 has always been 15A. The BT3000 was only 13A during its first year, it was 15A for about 10 years following that.

**LinuxRandal** · 05-30-2005, 10:32 PM

"The BT3100 has always been 15A. The BT3000 was only 13A during its first year, it was 15A for about 10 years following that."

OK, stop reading the forums at 2:00am, as I reversed that fact. Thanks for the info and correction. Randal turns around and "boot to the head".

Since the belt driven motor is being partially discussed here, anyone replace the factory belt with a link belt? Would it break for safety like the factory one, does it smooth out anything, (these seem pretty smooth anyway), is it an oddball width or anything. My saw background was with the old behemoths, then I had to go benchtop, now I think I have the best of both worlds.

**maderawood** · 05-31-2005, 09:02 AM

Thank you all for your replies. I am definitely leaning towards the BT3100 because of this site. I typically buy 4*8 birch or maple plywoods to make cabinets, bookcases, etc. I use a Ryobi circular saw to cut them now. What rail extenders and table extenders would you recommend for the BT3100? My saw will be stored in a garage shared with a car so I would need extenders that can be removed easily and stored. Also, from the postings it seems like the BT3000 was around for approximately 11 years before they replaced it with the BT3100. How long has the BT3100 been available? I'm wondering if it's nearing its end life and will be replaced soon? Anyone hear of any upcoming improvements?
Thanks again to all. It's unbelievable how much one can learn about woodworking just by reading this site. You are without a doubt Ryobi's best salespeople.

**Mainemarc** · 05-31-2005, 09:48 AM

Hi Maderawood:

I believe the BT3100 was introduced in the fall of 2002, so I think we're closer to the beginning, rather than the end, of the product's life cycle. The current version is actually designated the BT3100-1, which incorporates an improved motor switch.

Periodically we do hear rumors of some sort of beefed up version of the BT3100, but those rumors died out a bit when a slightly enhanced model was introduced by Ryobi into the Canadian market. I secretly suspect that saw is what we were hearing about.

Your desire to cut full size plywood sheets on a tablesaw, yet have any extensions easily removed is going to be problematic. The optional wide table kit with rail extensions is one of the nice features of the BT3100, but I don't think it's designed to be taken on and off continuosly. Nor are similar extension systems on higher priced saws that I've read about.

You have three options as I see it:
1) continue to cut down plywood to rough size using a circular saw. (this is what most people do, I think).
2) invest in some good outfeed supports for the right and the back of the saw. Roller bearing or low friction platform types are generally better than roller stands, as the latter introduces a directional bias as you feed the stock.
3) Build a mobile platform for the BT3100 and a wide table with extension rails. This takes up considerable room, but the storage capabilities plus what amounts to a mobile work table can often justify it's size.

**tmaceroli** · 05-31-2005, 10:56 AM

Hi,

I recently had a pretty major renovation done to my home, both inside and outside. I was somewhat surprised at the equipment used by the contractors for the various trades. For the major framing work, it was strictly compound miter saws. For exterior plywood, circular saws with a cutting guide where a full sheet wasn't required. Interior work for flooring, wainscoating, and cabinet work was done with a benchtop table saw, for the most part. All moulding work, like crown and baseboard, was back to the miter saw. Makita and Bosch seemed to be the saw of choice. No contractor's saws of any type. I asked and the major reason was accuracy of the cuts. Since the work in the house was first rate, I guess they knew wat they were doing.

**LCHIEN** · 05-31-2005, 12:21 PM

quote:Originally posted by tmaceroli

Hi,

I recently had a pretty major renovation done to my home, both inside and outside. I was somewhat surprised at the equipment used by the contractors for the various trades. For the major framing work, it was strictly compound miter saws. For exterior plywood, circular saws with a cutting guide where a full sheet wasn't required. Interior work for flooring, wainscoating, and cabinet work was done with a benchtop table saw, for the most part. All moulding work, like crown and baseboard, was back to the miter saw. Makita and Bosch seemed to be the saw of choice. No contractor's saws of any type. I asked and the major reason was accuracy of the cuts. Since the work in the house was first rate, I guess they knew wat they were doing.

I would imagine that's because there were no rip cuts to speak of, only crosscuts to length and or miter.

Framing a house basically uses dimensional lumber at its nominal outside dimensions; modling and such is cut to length and miter.

The table saw is used probably more for furniture and cabinets. Especially where lumber has to be redimensioned, e.g. squared, paralleled and ripped.

**BobSch** · 05-31-2005, 01:27 PM

quote:Originally posted by tmaceroli

Hi,

I recently had a pretty major renovation done to my home, both inside and outside. I was somewhat surprised at the equipment used by the contractors for the various trades. For the major framing work, it was strictly compound miter saws. For exterior plywood, circular saws with a cutting guide where a full sheet wasn't required. Interior work for flooring, wainscoating, and cabinet work was done with a benchtop table saw, for the most part. All moulding work, like crown and baseboard, was back to the miter saw. Makita and Bosch seemed to be the saw of choice. No contractor's saws of any type. I asked and the major reason was accuracy of the cuts. Since the work in the house was first rate, I guess they knew wat they were doing.

OTOH, we just visited some relatives who are building a new house and the contractor is using the Sears version of the BT3000, especially for the hardwood flooring.

**JimD** · 05-31-2005, 01:33 PM

I don't see any reason you could not attach and detach the extension rails as often as necessary for storage. They just clamp in place using the slots of the rails so you aren't wearing anything out by attaching and detaching. You might want to make the extension table have fold down legs or something so it would be more compact but that would seem to be fairly straight-forward. You could also shorten the extension rails a little and let the extension table fold-down once the rails are dis-connected.

Jim

**leehljp** · 05-31-2005, 03:08 PM

Ridgid's lifetime warranty is a point of contention to some people. The warranty is lifetime against defects - a great selling point until the motor burns out two years down the road and they tell you that is normal wear and tear.

Life Time Warranty against defects is NOT Life Time warranty against normal wear. If something breaks due to what they deem "normal" wear, it is not considered under the warranty. Whether to replace a "normal wear breakage" for free or not is up to the local HD manager, and there are some fine managers out there. But there are also some that stick to the warranty as it is written.

Some people, including me, consider this wording to be deceptive. I know what to listen for, so I know the truth behind it. The makers know the truth too and also know that most new buyers will NOT know the difference. Intentionally taking advanteage of other people's ignorance has been around a long time and some people think that is perfectly OK. I do not! I have a hard time trusting people and companies who do that intentionally and throw that into the selling point knowing that difference.

**LinuxRandal** · 06-01-2005, 08:03 AM

quote:Originally posted by leehljp

Ridgid's lifetime warranty is a point of contention to some people. The warranty is lifetime against defects - a great selling point until the motor burns out two years down the road and they tell you that is normal wear and tear.

Life Time Warranty against defects is NOT Life Time warranty against normal wear. If something breaks due to what they deem "normal" wear, it is not considered under the warranty. Whether to replace a "normal wear breakage" for free or not is up to the local HD manager, and there are some fine managers out there. But there are also some that stick to the warranty as it is written.

Some people, including me, consider this wording to be deceptive. I know what to listen for, so I know the truth behind it. The makers know the truth too and also know that most new buyers will NOT know the difference. Intentionally taking advanteage of other people's ignorance has been around a long time and some people think that is perfectly OK. I do not! I have a hard time trusting people and companies who do that intentionally and throw that into the selling point knowing that difference.

They are trying to hit a mark with the Craftsman crowd. The difference is Craftsman has a lifetime warranty AND a satisfaction guarantee, and a wore out or broken tool always falls under the later. It is a common scam for stores to push warrantees, I purchased a ceiling fan from one of the clubs, at the bosses order. It said Lifetime warrantee on the box and they still tried to sell a lifetime warrantee with it. I asked how many more lifetimes does their extended one cover.

BT3100 vs Ridgid TS3650 Help!

BT3100 vs Ridgid TS3650 Help!

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