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The fence has always been this way... Honest!

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  • #16
    Well then, something else is amiss. Thanks for measuring that, Hank.
    Can you check the distance rail-to-rail in your saw if you get the chance? I've a feeling that my best bet might be to totally disassemble everything and go from there. I've already partially disassembled things and have found no issues as of yet.

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    • #17
      One thing that I come back to on this is apparent in this picture. It's a comparison between where the roller holder sits on my saw versus where it sits on jlhumbert's saw (thanks man! Invaluable photos!)

      Click image for larger version

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      One can see that on my saw, the roller holder sits much farther back.

      If I had any hair left on my head, I'd be pulling it out right about now.
      Oh, and one other thing that stands out as pretty obvious to me...
      The roller holder on my saw is totally different than the roller holder on jl's saw. Look at the total size of the actual holder... the area around the pin, the size of the main boss that the extrusion butts up to, etc.
      It is quite possible that the saw I have is one of the first off the assembly line, and that Ryobi recognized a serious issue with the assembly early on... namely that the rear clamper didn't, because of this exact problem.

      I sure wish some of the reps from Ryobi still kept an eye on this forum.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Injuneer View Post
        Well then, something else is amiss. Thanks for measuring that, Hank.
        Can you check the distance rail-to-rail in your saw if you get the chance? I've a feeling that my best bet might be to totally disassemble everything and go from there. I've already partially disassembled things and have found no issues as of yet.
        Rail to rail: 570mm precisely. Measured on Both ends between the rails. Inside edge of front rail to inside edge of rear rail.

        Hope this helps. I am curious what the problem is.
        Last edited by leehljp; 01-25-2019, 04:27 PM.
        Hank Lee

        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

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        • #19
          I'm not seeing significant differences that can't be explained by lighting and positioning.

          I think something is just maladjusted on your fence. If you could post pics of everything from different angles on both ends of the fence, I think we could track it down.

          It's pretty unlikely that you have a manufacturing error.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by tfischer View Post
            I'm not seeing significant differences that can't be explained by lighting and positioning.

            I think something is just maladjusted on your fence. If you could post pics of everything from different angles on both ends of the fence, I think we could track it down.

            It's pretty unlikely that you have a manufacturing error.
            Could be.
            I think measuring from the center of the pin to the front face of the roller holder would tell us for sure, because it looks to me to be very much different, and I can tell that there's tons more of the "meat" of the roller holder hanging into the trough where the clamper hangs into on mine, making the clamper finger much farther rearward. Just look at the sideways "M" that the gusset around the pin forms; the legs of the "M" are much longer on my fence than on jl's. These seem to be two different designs to me. I need to look at the parts list in the manual too just to see if perhaps they changed the P/N from this early production to a later model.
            Gosh, you guys sure are helpful... thank you so much!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Injuneer View Post

              Could be.
              I think measuring from the center of the pin to the front face of the roller holder would tell us for sure, because it looks to me to be very much different, and I can tell that there's tons more of the "meat" of the roller holder hanging into the trough where the clamper hangs into on mine, making the clamper finger much farther rearward. Just look at the sideways "M" that the gusset around the pin forms; the legs of the "M" are much longer on my fence than on jl's. These seem to be two different designs to me. I need to look at the parts list in the manual too just to see if perhaps they changed the P/N from this early production to a later model.
              Gosh, you guys sure are helpful... thank you so much!
              OK, I noticed that too, but I attributed it to the photos themselves. But I did. notice the it looked farther back and thicker between the swing pen and the fence housing.

              Now for another set of monkey wrenches in my mind:

              1. I don't "Think" the Sears version of the BT is different, but could it be and you have a "sears" fence?
              2. Something keeps coming to my mind on the way the rails set on the bosses of the saw. I remember a long while ago someone had problems with the bosses, the rails, the levers and square nuts. Actually the nuts are not square but rectangular, and how it is put together causes some level problems, but I don't think it was a fence problem.

              I had two Bits, a BT3000 (in Japan) and a 3100 here. I had the 3000 first and got to know it well; Later I bought the 3100 for use when I was back here to use on my USA home and daughters at their house. I ran into problems with the SMT table not being able to correctly adjust. Because I had replaced the slides on my 3000, I knew what to do on the 3100, but it did not work. I finally figured that they drilled the holes off center by a couple of millimeters, not allowing the slides to adjust the slop/wiggle space out. I know at least one other had the same problem.

              I said that to let you know that on rare occasions, there were mis-aligned, mis-drilled or mis-machined things. But that happens in most things.
              Hank Lee

              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

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              • #22
                This is a total aside but I thought it coincidental that it happened while this thread is playing out:

                Was working on a project last night with my 14yo. Suddenly he says "hey the fence is crooked". Now I have the calibration jig from the FAQ that I built before he was even born... I rarely use it because every time I do, it needs little if any adjustment.

                But this time I tried it and it was off by more than a quarter of an inch. Wow! I loosen the two front screws, and I can't even get the fence parallel... it's THAT far off. I pull up the manual just to make sure I'm not missing some coarse adjustment... nope. I double checked the rail clamps as I was cutting some wide MDF for the project the prior day and had to slide them over. Nope, they were fine. Finally I used my Dremel to widen the holes a bit and that gave me enough play to align the fence.

                I have no idea what caused this, or even when it happened. My cuts have been true enough, as far as I can tell. It's as if something bent... but I almost never even remove the fence from the saw, much less drop it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Injuneer View Post
                  I measure the aluminum extrusion of the fence to be right at 579mm.
                  Inside of the rails, from one to the other I get 584mm. This is measured from the face that the rear slot of the front side of the fence lock rests into up to the front most part of the rear rail - see picture here:
                  http://kd4pbs.homelinux.net/Pics/Saw/rail-to-rail.jpg
                  The length of my fence extrusion is 580mm as well. The distance between the rail locations, on my saw, that you reference above is 585mm.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Injuneer View Post
                    One thing that I come back to on this is apparent in this picture. It's a comparison between where the roller holder sits on my saw versus where it sits on jlhumbert's saw (thanks man! Invaluable photos!)

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	Comparison.jpg Views:	1 Size:	77.6 KB ID:	835940

                    One can see that on my saw, the roller holder sits much farther back.

                    If I had any hair left on my head, I'd be pulling it out right about now.
                    Oh, and one other thing that stands out as pretty obvious to me...
                    The roller holder on my saw is totally different than the roller holder on jl's saw. Look at the total size of the actual holder... the area around the pin, the size of the main boss that the extrusion butts up to, etc.
                    It is quite possible that the saw I have is one of the first off the assembly line, and that Ryobi recognized a serious issue with the assembly early on... namely that the rear clamper didn't, because of this exact problem.

                    I sure wish some of the reps from Ryobi still kept an eye on this forum.
                    Seeing this post made me remember something that I had forgotten. My saw is a BT3000, but my fence is, as far as I know, from a BT3100. Sorry I didn't mention it when I posted my photo's but I never think about it and had forgotten. However, as I mentioned above, my fence extrusion is 580mm, and the distance between rails (inside face to inside face) is 570mm (same as Hanks). My fence works perfectly, so the BT3000/BT3100 fences seem to be interchangeable.

                    Not being able to see the big picture here (just bits and pieces), I agree with tfischer that something must be wrong with your fence (something bent, broken, misaligned, loose, etc).
                    Last edited by jlhumbert; 01-28-2019, 03:30 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The thing that keeps striking me looking at the pics is that Injuneer's picture, I can't see the bottom edge of the roller coming down and touching the top of the rail. Does this bother anyone else other than me? Where's the roller?
                      Another curiosity I noted was that Injuneers clamper lever is held by a solid pin where as JL and mine and I presume everyone else's is held with a split roll pin, hollow in the middle (the source of the bright spot where JL's backlight shines thru). Not sure what thet means for the position error, but certainly someone has messed with this area before.

                      To help I also measure exactly 580 mm length of the rip fence extrusion and 570 mm from inside to inside of the front and back rails.

                      To help find out where Injuneers excess comes from, I measure 11 mm from the front side of the rip fence extrusion to the edge of the main table And I measure 9 mm from the rear end of the extrusion to the rear edge of the main table.

                      I just changed my roller holder bracket from the OEM to one of those aluminum brackets and it works fine with the roller riding on the rear rail and the clamper grabbing the inside front lip as its supposed to. The clamper holds very tight with minimal force on the front locking handle not lowered much below the 2:00 position.
                      Last edited by LCHIEN; 02-20-2019, 01:21 AM.
                      Loring in Katy, TX USA
                      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LCHIEN View Post
                        The thing that keeps striking me looking at the pics is that Injuneer's picture, I can't see the bottom edge of the roller coming down and touching the top of the rail. Does this bother anyone else other than me? Where's the roller?
                        Another curiosity I noted was that Injuneers clamper lever is held by a solid pin where as JL and mine and I presume everyone else's is held with a split roll pin, hollow in the middle (the source of the bright spot where JL's backlight shines thru). Not sure what thet means for the position error, but certainly someone has messed with this area before.

                        To help I also measure exactly 580 mm length of the rip fence extrusion and 570 mm from inside to inside of the front and back rails.

                        To help find out where Injuneers excess comes from, I measure 11 mm from the front side of the rip fence extrusion to the edge of the main table And I measure 9 mm from the rear end of the extrusion to the rear edge of the main table.

                        I just changed my roller holder bracket from the OEM to one of those aluminum brackets and it works fine with the roller riding on the rear rail and the clamper grabbing the inside front lip as its supposed to. The clamper holds very tight with minimal force on the front locking handle not lowered much below the 2:00 position.
                        I agree that his roller appears to be floating above the rail. We might not be able to see the roller because it looks like his photo was taken at a slightly higher angle than my photo. It also looks like the shoulder of the clamping finger is striking the top of the back rail (see red circle in photo below) -- and that is holding the rear of the fence up and preventing the wheel from resting on the rail. There are only so many things that could cause this and hopefully he will be able figure it out with all the data and photo's we have provided.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Sorry for the delay in getting back, but, well, you know how things go when we're having too much fun making stuff and drift away from the internets!
                          The wife and I found an excellent deal on a used Shapeoko 2, and we've been having a blast with some CNC and laser engraving projects with it, so I haven't perused the forum in a few months.
                          Anyway....
                          Indeed, my roller does not roll on the rail. I thought I had mentioned before that the reason is because the space between the front and back of the fence (the length of the fence extrusion) seemed to be too long, and as such, there is a little nub that holds the back part of the fence away from the rail, and precludes the clamp on this back end from actually clamping. That's the part that is circled in JL's post - and this was basically what I identified as the problem from the get-go.
                          Anyway, just so that we can close this thread with a solution, I'd like to let everyone know that I figured out what the problem was!!!
                          Every time I checked the rails for straightness or measured the distance between the two I would do so with the router table removed. Then I'd put everything back together and try the fence again, and again, the back of the fence would not clamp. And I would try clamping it not up next to the blade, but off the right side around the router table. There was my problem (besides my 2.5-watt brain)! I eventually discovered totally by accident that loosening or removing the router table makes the fence work just fine. As soon as I tighten the back end of the router table underneath the edge in the back, I noticed that it would draw the rails together. Eureka! (or Hoover? Maybe Kirby?) Problem solved! Making a shim out of some shim material to place between the router table and the back rail fixed this issue altogether. The back end of the fence now clamps down firmly.
                          After figuring this out, I was feeling daring, so I then took the fence apart and discovered that the stamped metal lever which actuated the rod was also slightly bent. I straightened it out, and I now have some "wiggle room" with the adjustment screw on the back end of the fence rear clamp.
                          Whew! This one was a booger to figure out.
                          Thanks to all who have helped with this!

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                          • #28
                            Thanks for letting us know. Very helpful!
                            Hank Lee

                            Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Glad you finally figured it out.

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