100% complete list of accessories and mods?

[mmcmac]

Picking nits a bit, the BT3000, unlike the BT3100, has a non-anodized (i.e., raw) SMT base.

I was referring to the "miter base" part #14 in the miter table exploded view. At least in the case of the bt3000s I've collected the "ways" of the miter base in contact with the A/B slide blocks are anodized. While the cabinet shop survivor has most of the factory oxide remaining, a few places are clearly worn through or abraded away. Unknown if a production variation may have existed at some point where the ways were/weren't anodized.

[leehljp]

Picking nits a bit, the BT3000, unlike the BT3100, has a non-anodized (i.e., raw) SMT base.

I have both a BT3000 and 3100. I prefer the 3000 over the 3100 on several points: 1. Base; 2. non-anodized SMT base. Overall looks and front colors.

The anodized look has an appearence of "adding something" to distinguish it from something else but doesn't really add to the function. . . i.e. a sales gimmick to me. I prefer the aluminum look of the 3000 over painted surfaces of the 3100.

I also really like the 3000 base over the 3100. The front lift/angle handle was sturdier on the 3000. The big weakness on the 3000 was the shims, which were fixable easy enough.

I will say that my personal likes was made by the fact that I can set my 3000 with checked settings every 3 to 6 months and they were/are square within registration specs. A few others here had similar experiences - but a few did not. My 3100 on the other hand had a bad SMT out of the box. The holes for the sliders were apparently drilled close to 1 mm off. NOTHING could bring it into alignment. Because I had experience the 3000 and replacing two broken slides on the SMT from a drop, I knew what to look for. I modified my 3100 SMT and it worked OK but later picked up a third SMT when someone parted their BT out.

[mmcmac]

3) keep the SMT together when a larger workpiece is involved -- if, for example, you are using the long miter kit with SMT left of main table and have a long workpiece sticking way out to the left, it's going to pull down on that side, making the left side of the SMT the fulcrum point, so the right B slides will experience stress and friction instead of (or at least more than) the A slides. Without the B slides, the SMT table top would flip right off the base.

That's certainly true. However when the bottom of the B slide acts as a vertical stop for the way, there will be some vertical distance travled and precision lost if this occurs during a cut. So it seems best to avoid creating lift on any part of the table when a cut is in progress which is likely the usual case due to operator down pressure.

As for 2-part vs. single piece, I assume the reason for this is so that shims, if needed/desired, could be put between the 2 pieces, as per the SMT mod kit.

I don't see how the two part slide offers an opportunity for beneficial shimming, as a shim placed between A and B slides would only increase the play between slides. To lift the SMT upwards a shim would need to be located between the A shim and miter table.

It isn't as if the eccentric screw moves the slides away from one another because the holes align exactly and keep them against the screw body.

The eccentric screws allow 2mm of independent circular travel for each slide. However only travel parallel to the arbor axis is significant for SMT alignment. I've attached a quick markup of the slide mechanism for reference. The measurements are probably accurate relative to the intended design within a few 0.01mm of those called out (due to mold shrinkage and wear in usage).

[mmcmac]

You sure those aren't 3100's? I guess some very late 3000's must have an anodized miter base then, but I have only seen 3000's with the raw aluminum base...

Maybe what is tripping us up here is the color difference (use of an oxide dye) for the bt3100 relative to the bt3000. I'm just guessing as I've never seen a bt3100 up close. All three bt3000s in my hands have an anodized miter base and IIRC are early/mid 90s vintage. I just probe tested the bottom of a miter base while observing under a scope and it was obvious when I broke through the hard anodized oxide, and begun abrading the base aluminum.

[leehljp]

You're talking about the stand now, right?
I prefer the 4010300 stand as well.

Yes. The link was Norm's posting. Haven't heard from him in a while. BTW, I think Norm was the one that came up with "Paint the red line".

He also mentions some plastic shim supports in his article. The link has gone 404, but it is to Ryobi's site, so can I assume those supports were an official product sold by Ryobi for our older pre-wavy shims?? If so, there's another part number that should go on the list.

No, the part was not from Ryobi but simply a thin piece of something screwed on to the shim guide. It was not tight against the shims, but just snug enough to prevent the shims from sliding out. It was more or less a stop guide to the shims. On occasion without lub or too much sawdust, the pressure of raising or lowering the motor, the guides would hold to the rail it slides on and when all the way raised, the shims would fall off. The home made guide would add a smidgen of pressure on the lip of the shims and keep them from pulling away from the slide piece. Without picts to look at, it may sound strange.

There are a few used 4010300 stands on eBay atm and a brand new one, if anyone's interested. Mine is in good shape except for the "L" feet, which are FUBAR'd and I can't find new ones anywhere.

I know a lot of people like to put the Herc-U-Lift on the later A181011303 stand, but I'm going to build my own quad-caster lifter for my old 4010300 stand. I have the two 4" Ryobi casters mounted and they get the job done, but I'd rather lift the entire unit with a foot and just push it around. I've seen homebrew designs on youtube and will probably do something similar.

I put my 3000 on a Bosch Gravity Rise after retiring from my Japan work and returning to the States. I am thinking of changing the 3100 onto it, and putting the 3000 back on the 3000 base stand. I really liked that stand. But I also like the ease of moving the BT around on the Bosch stand.

[mmcmac]

So you're saying the "nude" bases are anodized clear. I was under the impression the satin/matte finish was just brushed. I'll have to take a closer look at my '92.

Newly cut Al immediately develops a thin oxide coating upon atmospheric exposure. Anodizing essentially forces further corrosion/oxidation to increase the depth of the oxide coating beyond that occuring naturally. Afterwards the oxide may be optionally dyed before sealing. I beleive all of the bt3000 Al extrusions (rip rails, rip fence, miter table base, etc..) are anodized but without dye processing of the oxide coating.

wouldn't that leave lube traces on the "nude" surfaces over time?

Likely, but the question is if it would be detectable to the unaided eye. Wear of a MoS2 filled composite is likely to be minimal and close in color to the Al way surface.

I get the feeling these slides are just black nylon, nuthin' fancy..

My guess is acetal, but only from handling the slides. A quick burn test may shed some light. Likely either material would work in this application. I believe a single slide block which functions as the A+B set can be cut and shaped from stock using a bt3k itself then drilled out at 8mm to accept the eccentric screw.

The manual calls for lubrication of these points in the troubleshooting section, but interestingly only in the early manual I have; the later manuals simply say to realign the SMT if it doesn't move smoothly.
So, the "cause" went from being dirty/sticky miter base/slides to being improperly adjusted ones. I wonder if this could mean they used a different material in later runs of the slides. I doubt it, but it's still interesting that Ryobi changed their minds about the cause.

I'd hazard what they are calling "doesn't move smoothly" is either play or binding in the SMT travel.

All of the manuals that I have recommend waxing the front and rear rails, though.

That seems like a good approach for visible, anodized wear surfaces assuming it yields a hard coating which adhers to the intended surface.

Dry lubricants based on PTFE and MoS2 are available which according to manufacturer claims bond to the applied surface. The PTFE seems interesting as I can't imagine how that is achieved. MoS2 bearing compounds though should more readily mechanically work into the thin oxide of non-anodized components such as the ways of the locker bracket (#10). I had a conversation with a tech at McLube which manufactures PTFE, MoS2, and PTFE+MoS2 dry lubricants, all of which seem to have application here.

[mmcmac]

I thought it might be a clip-on solution that Ryobi created after complaints about the falling shim syndrome, since he said the plastic supports he linked to (at bottom of his article) were an alternative if you don't want to drill holes.
They must be glued or taped in place then.

I don't know why Ryobi didn't design the shim/gibs as a folded "Z" cross section vs. the existing "L" cross section. Doing so the additional stub leg in the Z would extend into the guide holder casting (#80) between each pair of screw (#89) bosses. That would be a trivial manufacturing step/cost and would lock the shim/gibs more securely than any alternative solution I've seen. A retrofit which takes the same approach is to glue a block on the back of the L shim/gib (#3) which extends into the casting void between the screw (#89) bosses. Similarly a block can be glued onto the back of the adjacent L leg which extends into the guide holder way casting void. The guide holders in my bt3000s all have three long voids in the ways (presumably to control casting shrinkage) into which the shim glued block can key.

After further consideration I wouldn't recommend gluing the shim/gib directly to the way as the area of adhesive contact needs to exclude the set screw (#73) locations by a considerable margin. And even then taking up on the shim/gibs will cause distortion of the shim as it deflects relative to the now glued centre, affecting the set screw pressure distribution. Gluing a free block to the rear of either shim/gib leg allows the shim to float while creating a positive key against the casting. Removal of the block-keyed shim would be trivial compared with trying to wrestle out a shim intact which is adhered to the way.

Edit: added jpeg markup illustrating above. Base picture kindly donated by Ebay.

[mmcmac]

Or simpler, just cut one half of the flat shim stock longer, then form that half with a leg to wrap around the top of the guide holder and one to wrap around the bottom -- basically, just much longer lips than the originals have.

Empirically the folded tab retainer isn't very effective unless the shim/gim is kept lubricated and its path free from debris. To varying degrees I've found this failure in all 3 of my bt3000s although that may not be a representative sampling.

So I don't see how increasing the tab length alone will remedy the situation unless the extended tab was used to eliminate further bending stress. eg: each tab could be punched for a retainer screw passing into the guide holder. The problem is the shims are fabricated from tempered (brittle) SS and the tight bend of the tab fatigues the SS leaving the result prone to failure with any further bending stress in usage. IME once a tab is flattened due to seizing against the locker bracket, attempting to rebend the tab is futile as if it doesn't break off outright it is so traumatically weakened that it offers little to no resistance against the shim riding out of the way. That was the motivation for my prior suggestions, specifically to move the retaining stress from the fatigued manufacturing bend.

Grabber tabs cast as part of the guide holder top and bottom would retain the shims via holes in the shims as they're snapped into place.

That does seem like it would buy some insurance but I'd be concerned over the tab bend flexing when attempting to retain a seizing shim/gib -- presumably the snap in nature would allow for some play when seated.

Although one thought I had was indeed to lengthen the tabs not for the purpose of retain the shim/gib but rather bent into an approximate round pocket such that it could retain a wad of lubricated saturated felt packing. Doing so would act to clear the locker bracket of sawdust accumulation while maintaining a lubrication film on the surface. This could be done for both tabs at a given shim/gib end and to each end of the (#86) way shim as well.

At any rate, as there's evidently no official shim fix supplied by Ryobi -- other than upgrading to the BT3100...

From what I understand of the spring loaded bt3100 redesign, I'd likely choose the bt3000 adjustable hard gibbed approach. While it certainly has its warts, under proper conditions (which can be virtually guaranteed as above) stress wear on the way and shim/gibs occurs only under usage load vs. during all elevation changes of the guide holder due to the constant spring tension. A spring loaded gib is subject to deflection under load as well although I'm uncertain to what degree this occurs in actual usage.

[LCHIEN]

when I ran a BT3 survey a couple of years ago, about 1/3 of BT3000 owners (it was limited to BT3000s ) said they had the shim problems. So it's not a sure thing.
Best bet apparently - keep the shims lubricated and the saw guts clear of debris and sawdust.

[tfischer]

Why are we suddenly calling the shims "shims/gibs"? I've been here since about 2004 and haven't heard the "gib" term until recently.

[leehljp]

Why are we suddenly calling the shims "shims/gibs"? I've been here since about 2004 and haven't heard the "gib" term until recently.

I kinda wondered the same. A "gib" from my perspective is something that has to do with holding something in place.

This is the first posting with the word "gib" in relation to the BT3x. And the other post on "Locker" bracket and "Needle" bearings. I had a hard time trying to figure that one out. Finally I saw the part on a Ryobi schematic. I think that was the first time that part had been mentioned in the 12 years I've been here. I finally figured out that it isn't really a "needle" bearing but a small rod. At first, I thought it was in relation to the rear locker bar on the rip fence, or the front lever that locks the fence to the rails.

In reading these and seeing the layout schematic in the manual that they are refenencing, I have come to the conclusion that these guys are engineers! More power to them!

[tfischer]

This is the first posting with the word "gib" in relation to the BT3x. And the other post on "Locker" bracket and "Needle" bearings. I had a hard time trying to figure that one out.

I just had to replace my motor a few months back, and I still have no idea what the "needle bearing" is. I might have even held it in my hand, as it seemed like you had to disassemble the whole frigging saw just to get to that stuff. I too thought it might have been referring to the parts inside the rip fence.

I love to tinker, but in this case I want the saw to just work, I don't want my saw to be the project, lol.

[tfischer]

I'm sure your correct on most of the part names, but I've never seen "gib" used on any official or unofficial Ryobi materials/forums. There's plenty of docu about "shims" however, so I'm not sure why it's suddenly being qualified as "shims/gibs".

[tfischer]

For the record, I have always referred to them as shims. I was just pointing out that mmcmac (I think that's who called them gibs) was technically correct insofar as machinist terminology.

LOL I'm not trying to be a jerk, just honestly baffled about the sudden influx of a new term for a saw part that has been around over 20 years.

[mmcmac]

When I hear needle bearing, I usually think of a pilot bearing like in a vehicle transmission.
In the R sheets, Ryobi refers to it variously as needle roller, roll pin and dowel pin, depending on which version of the saw and which section of the diagram you're looking at.

Probably all three had some logical basis in terms of a commodity sourced component from Ryobi's perspective. Evidentially they were after a hardened round pin to act as the arbor pivot. And it would be far less expensive to design the pivot around a commercially available straight roller/needle bearing component than custom manufacturing the part. That's just my guess.

I had not heard of "gib" myself..

I didn't mean to create confusion with that name. Perhaps "gibbed shim" would be the most accurate way to differentiate shim #3 (which functions as a way gib) from shim #86 which is simply a bearing surface to prevent Al to Al sliding contact.

Concerning the technical discussions, I think we're pretty much all in the same boat when it comes to keeping these machines alive. And to the extent possible I'm interested in doing so such that I'm not held captive to the dwindling supply of repair parts at "seller's market" pricing. Granted in some cases this will involve machine tool capability. But I expect there are a fair amount of repairs and improvements which can be accomplished with more common tools and some experimentation.