7-1/4" bt3000 newbie

[badbert]

Hey everybody! Been a lurker here for a few weeks. Man have I learned alot! I made the jump and bought a bt3000 with everything except the wide table. The guy I got it from, inherited from his uncle. His uncle must have been a member here. The custom fence attachments, router fence and custom router table that he made are dead square. There a blade scribes, and zero marks everywhere. The hole thing is polished and waxed super smooth. The custom table with three drawers it is mounted on, are rock solid with hidden casters. The drawers are stuffed full of Dado Blades, molding cutters, hand polished hand made ZCTPs, t-bolts, t-nuts, and jigs that I don't have a clue what they do! Add to this a 3.5hp industrial craftsman plunge router on a plexi-glass base. Not a bad deal for $240!

After disassembling cleaning and aligning everything I could find on here to align. I have achieved accuracy I didn't think was possible on a table saw that didn't cost $2k.

Because of this I wanted to take the time to thank everyone for all of the info posted here.

Now I can post my first question. I bought this saw to help me build cabinets for my new house. I started looking for good quality fine tooth blades. Most are well out of my price range. Those that weren't didn't look worth the money. I spoke to an ancient master woodworker at home depot Yes they do have professionals working there. They work during the day, when all of you are at work LOL! This old guy looked at me over the edge of his tri-focals and asked if I wanted some advice. He told me to buy a 2 for 1 deal, that they have on Avanti-Pro 142 tooth Hollow ground blade for a CIRCULAR SAW! I was appalled! You want me to use a cheap little blade on my fancy precision table saw?! He went on to explain that the smaller blade diameter increases the leverage of the motor, Letting it run cooler, the blade doesn't produce as much sawdust, makes thinner cuts and cuts quieter than a ten inch. Dang I felt kind of stupid, and at 2 for less than $10 the price was definitely right! Well I tried it and he was right. I used one of those fancy ZCTPs and raised the blade just over 3/4". And have not touched it in a week. my son and I have kept this saw going for hours every day for the past week, and that little blade is still going strong. I haven't had to joint one edge yet. The joints have all been square straight perfect. So my question is this. Other than the obvious fact that I ain't gonna be able to miter cut a 2 by 4 (it does raise high enough to cut 2 by 4s) what is the disadvantage to using the smaller blades?

[All Thumbs]

So my question is this. Other than the obvious fact that I ain't gonna be able to miter cut a 2 by 4 (it does raise high enough to cut 2 by 4s) what is the disadvantage to using the smaller blades?

Nothing, provided your riving knife is thin enough that you can still use it while using the thinner kerf blades.

The riving knife (splitter) is really a must. I can't tell you the number of times mine has saved my butt.

[RAV2]

I do this all the time.

B&D had a thin blade - a baracuda I think - that I bought at the outlet for like a couple of bucks each.

Used them on my Craftsman 10" before I got my 21829.

If I'm doing general cutting - these work great. As you have stated, you need to watch out if you need to cut more than 1" stock. May need a blade change.

Otherwise - no harm; no foul

[JoeyGee]

Welcome and congrats on a great saw at a great price. Please post a picture of the saw, I would love to see it. If that gentleman was a member and had ever posted a pic, I am sure there are some here that would recogniz it.

[toolguy1000]

[QUOTE=badbert;494630].......He went on to explain that the smaller blade diameter increases the leverage of the motor, .......QUOTE]

i may be rusty on my high school physics, but wouldn't the smaller diameter result in a smaller moment arm and therfore less leverage?

[LCHIEN]

IS that a carbide toothed saw? YOu can tell by the carbide tips brazed on each tooth. Hard to believe you got 284 carbide teeth for $10. Carbide is the expensive part of the saw and why the entire saw is not made of carbide. Usually hollow ground saw blades are HSS - hollow ground means the body width has been been reduced to let the teeth protrude and the body not drag on the cut. Carbide saw blades are not hollow ground - the tips are wide than the blade to keep the body from dragging on the cut.

If you have only a HSS blade, then one disadvantage is that it's going to wear much sooner than a good carbide saw blade. CArbide lasts 50 times longer than HSS. The 142 teeth is going to give a very smooth crosscut, but likely will be not so good on rips. Generally rip blades have smaller number of teeth (24 for a 10" blade) and large gullets (the valley between teeth to carry off the cuttings). A 10" 24T blade will have teeth every 1.3"; small gullets found between very closely spaced teeth (142T, 7.25", a tooth every .16") don't have enough space for cuttings. THe result is often burning on long, deep rips.

Also consider the larger radius give somewhat more tip velocity and more cutting length.

Somehow I don't think a 7" sawblade gets the best of your saw - certainly limits cut depth. It'll work but i wouldn't consider it unless I exclusively worked in thin sheet goods of relatively small size. IT's certainly not something you hear about a lot in the mainstream of BT3 Central users.

I think you have a nice saw setup, why don't you take Knotscotts (his posts are an excellent read on blade advice) suggestion and buy an inexpensive but good quality Onsrud blade on eBay; a 40T 10" blade will give good all around performance. Do you have any blades that came with the saw? What are they? A guy who took as good care of the saw as you describe surely would have had some good blades.

I keep mostly a high quality 10" 40T combination blade on my saw most of the time. I have a 10" 80T on my miter saw for crosscuts. And I have a 10" 24T rip blade I put on the BT3 when i need to do many rip cuts. I do have other blades but seldom use them.

[mpc]

A smaller circular saw blade can be a quality blade and will work fine. The tip velocity (at each tooth) is lower but that's not a significant issue; it just affects how fast you can feed the wood into the blade. The BT3's run at a higher RPM than many other saws compensating for the smaller diameter. Make sure your blades are rated for that higher RPM; not all are. Many are rated for only 3600 RPM.

As for being easier or harder on the motor, think about the prior posts on dado stacks: the BT3's can take the 8 inch sets (some BT3's need a little aluminum filed from the support structure to take a wide dado stack) but folks recommend the 6 inch sets generally - to save wear and tear on the motor. It's less start-up inertia and less challenging during the cut. The BT3 motor outputs a torque... that's force times distance basically. So the larger the blade (more distance) the less total force is available at the tips before you slow down/stop the motor.

mpc

[Knottscott]

Nothing, provided your riving knife is thin enough that you can still use it while using the thinner kerf blades.

The riving knife (splitter) is really a must. I can't tell you the number of times mine has saved my butt.

My guess is that the "old master" never used a splitter or a riving knife. All Thumbs brings up a huge concern IMO....if your blade isn't at least as wide as your riving knife, the wood will get hung up mid cut, which can cause all kinds of issues....none of which are good. Not to mention that the current HD Avanti blades are junk. For as little as $27 you can get a very good Freud Diablo 10" carbide blade that should last in the range of 1-2 years between sharpenings for the average hobbyist. I'd cough up the extra $17 and get a good blade. If you really, really need to spend less on a blade, at least get a good carbide tipped 7-1/4" blade like a Freud, CMT, or other, but be sure it'll clear your riving knife.

[badbert]

Blades are definitely HSS not carbide. No sign of dulling yet. I will list the blades it has with it. The one in the saw was a ryobi combination (original?). I am currently using the saw for 3/4 birch plywood. With this blade/ZCTP there is no tear-out. Which was my goal. I am not using the guard or the riving knife. Both are present. Just not installed. I will try to post pictures of the saw here later. I know the blades are not the greatest, but the edges they are leaving (so far). Have been exactly what I am looking for Crisp clean edges with no tear out no burn marks and no sanding or jointing! Perfect for the shaker style doors. I appreciate all of the replies and comments. And I am enjoying the debate about the blades. I would love to hear from people that are using them. Heck when it goes dull, I will throw it away! It was cheaper than having a blade sharpened! And 2 for 1! When one goes dull there is another brand new one in the drawer! For <$30 I can buy 6 of these blades!

[jdon]

1) leverage, physics, moment arm, etc. I'm not a physics major, either, but one way to look at it is that at a 5" radius (10" blade), the wood being cut exerts greater resistance (leverage) than at 3.75" radius. Or, to look at it another way, which would it be easier to stop a spinning blade: grabbing the outer edge, or grabbing the arbor (ignoring bodily injury )?

2) I thought the reason for using 6" instead of 8" dado blades is that the larger blades risk cutting into the cast motor mount.

[Knottscott]

I guess my question is, have you ever experienced the cuts made with a good blade on a well tuned saw? If you're happy with the results from the steel blades you've got, I think you'd be thrilled with the results from good 10" carbide blade (not an Avanti carbide blade). There are many things today that "aren't made like they used to be", but saw blade technology has made leaps and bounds from even just a few years ago. Carbide stays sharp many times longer than steel. Give the new age stuff a try.

[Ed62]

I am not using the guard or the riving knife. Both are present. Just not installed.

Please install the knife and guard before you turn the saw back on. We don't want to hear about another accident where someone gets badly hurt. If for no other reason, put it on for your son's sake. If he got hurt, without using the safety items, you would have to live with knowing it should have been installed.

Regardless of the number of years the operator has been using a table saw, it's not a good idea to think it can't happen to you. In a split second, you can be missing a few fingers, and the use of your hand for a very long time - maybe forever.

Welcome to the site. I hope you'll enjoy yourself. Just please take safety seriously. You don't always get a second chance.

Ed

[Cochese]

No guard and no knife are for the people on TV.

[LCHIEN]

I have seen some HSS high tooth count blades (like 100 to 200 teeth) advertised as "Plytooth" and they do make clean, tearout-free cuts in plywood. They're usually quite inexpensive, around $10-20.

I guess the question is how long will they do it? Probably long enough for the average home worker to complete several projects. They are also relatively cheap, I guess making them good for the weekend warrior on a budget.

There are some carbide blades designed to make clean cuts in plywood and laminates - melamine is particular prone to tear out if the blade is not super sharp. They're generally referred to as laminate blades. They have sharp ATB scoring teeth and run about 80T for a 10" blade. Generally they pretty costly and (more than $50) and maybe not such a good deal as plytooth when needed for a short job. So maybe these work OK if yo don't need longevity and a shallow cut (like 3/4 plywood).

here's an old thread on the subject:

http://www.bt3central.com/archive/index.php?t-33694.html

Also, the original Ryobi 36-tooth blade is quite well regarded, it should be capable of several sharpenings, if dull.

As a new BT3 owner you might be interested in my FAQ (see sig line below). The Ryobi blade is discussed.

[chopnhack]

Welcome to the forum and do post a pic of the saw.