method needed.. bevel rip for a rookie..

[Black wallnut]

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I agree with this general setup EXCEPT for having a featherboard on the waste piece (offcut). Once the cut is made through, that loose piece will not be a problem if it isn't restrained. This is just my opinion.
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You're assuming that the feather board is placed even with the blade or beyond. I'm assuming that it would be placed infront of the blade.

[cabinetman]

You're assuming that the feather board is placed even with the blade or beyond. I'm assuming that it would be placed infront of the blade.

I wouldn't want a featherboard anywhere on that side of the blade.
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[Black wallnut]

I wouldn't want a featherboard anywhere on that side of the blade.
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Why exactly not?

[RAFlorida]

Mark, I think Cman is saying

that the feather board would push the piece into the saw teeth and shot it back to the operator. And it would.

[cabinetman]

Why exactly not?

IMO, it's an unsafe procedure. It is trapping a loose piece between the blade and the featherboard, which is the same problem as with a fence. Without a featherboard there, the loose piece just falls loose, it goes nowhere. The concentration is on the section riding on the fence. I don't even look at the offcut.
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[Ed62]

I noticed the extra featherboard right away. It's definitely not needed, and could be unsafe, unless well away from the blade.

Ed

[phrog]

I think the confusion has to do with your definition of "offcut". Regardless of which piece is the "keeper", you want to use scenario #1 in your picture like LarryG (and others) said. Scenario #2 shows a piece "trapped" between the blade and the fence, because the blade is tilted towards the fence.

This bevel ripping situation, BTW, is a major reason for some to choose the left-tilting saws like Sarge's.

Regards,
Tom
[edit - I see you already got it.]

I'm not sure I understand why a left-tilt blade is safer than a right-tilt blade as long as the fence is moved to the correct side of the tilt. Can anyone comment on this? Thanks.
Richard

[Black wallnut]

IMO, it's an unsafe procedure. It is trapping a loose piece between the blade and the featherboard, which is the same problem as with a fence. Without a featherboard there, the loose piece just falls loose, it goes nowhere. The concentration is on the section riding on the fence. I don't even look at the offcut.
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If the feather board is placed before the blade how can it trap the offcut? It simply can not, at least not any more than the wood fibers trap it prior to completion of the cut. At the completion of the cut the off cut is past the feather board and will rest next to the blade. You use the word fall and I wonder why. Nothing falls unless you are using a sled to hold the stock.

RAFlordia, with the feather board in front of the blade the only influence it will have is to keep the stock prior to the blade in firm contact with the fence before the blade. If it exerts any pressure on the blade it will be at the front of the blade and those teeth are tring to push down, not up. Sarge's pics show this in clear terms.

[cabinetman]

I'm not sure I understand why a left-tilt blade is safer than a right-tilt blade as long as the fence is moved to the correct side of the tilt. Can anyone comment on this? Thanks.
Richard

I've had both right and left tilt saws and I don't think one is safer than the other as long as the fence is on the correct side of the tilt. Where the danger lies is with the operator and how comfortable he/she is with the positioning of the hands and the general procedure. A discomfort with that is what might make the tilt direction a question. As a rightie, I do feel more comfortable with a left tilt, but I've had to do procedures on a right tilt that was somewhat discerning.

No matter which way your saw tilts, or whatever cuts you make, even if the blade is at a 90, take a few moments and stand back and evaluate the whole cut as to whatever could go wrong, before you start. That might save you from a hole in your stomach, or maybe a finger or three.

If the feather board is placed before the blade how can it trap the offcut? It simply can not, at least not any more than the wood fibers trap it prior to completion of the cut. At the completion of the cut the off cut is past the feather board and will rest next to the blade. You use the word fall and I wonder why. Nothing falls unless you are using a sled to hold the stock.

RAFlordia, with the feather board in front of the blade the only influence it will have is to keep the stock prior to the blade in firm contact with the fence before the blade. If it exerts any pressure on the blade it will be at the front of the blade and those teeth are tring to push down, not up. Sarge's pics show this in clear terms.

I'm not a fan of using a feather board in that type of cut. The board is restricted at the beginning and not at the end of the cut. It's a similar argument that the short fence poses. If, during the cut, inner tensions cause the wood to move in one direction, like into the blade, you will have a problem. I'm just offering my opinion from my own experience. I'm not going to rap on how many feet of material I have run through the saw, or how many bevel cuts I have made. All I can do is give advice. I wouldn't comment on a procedure or setup as being safe if I thought it wasn't.
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[LarryG]

Mark is correct. If the featherboard is correctly rigged -- meaning, in front of the blade -- the fact this is a bevel cut does not make this setup any less safe. The purpose of this horizontal-acting featherboard is to hold the uncut portion of the workpiece against the rip fence, the same as it does with the blade vertical. The featherboard never touches the "offcut." In that regard, the fact the blade happens to be tilted is immaterial.

Richard, what you asked is not quite what anyone is saying (or at least I don't think anyone is saying that). As long as the fence is moved to the proper side of the tilted blade, a left- and a right-tilt saw are equally safe. However, some people feel uncomfortable or unnatural when adapting their stance and position to suit the fence being on the "wrong" side of the blade. So the advantage of a left-tilt saw is that it allows you to keep the fence on the same side of the blade for all cuts, whether straight or beveled.

[SARGE..g-47]

Mark is absolutely correct and here's some better pictures. You cannot trap the "loose" piece until it "becomes a loose piece". The tail end of all stock is severed before center blade depending on the thickness. 1" will usually be totally severed at about forward tooth 3-4 with thicker pieces moving toward center blade a few teeth. But.. nothing is severed after center tooth.

By using the feather (I use a spring-board) you only position it up the the final sever point.. never beyond.. The piece becomes "free" after it passes the feather and the feather becomes a non-factor. The feather is used to keep the piece firm to the fence with no movement. The slightest movement can create a very ragged edge on the top of the 45* cut. You will notice them at glue up as you have gaps in the seam.

Below is my "completed" spring-board I use on long 45* rips as I just went down to take some pictures. The one in the original picture was not complete as I took a quick shot for someone asking about it before I finished it. In this picture.. you will see that I use a slide in the left miter slot with a spring-board. I slide the forward sacrificial fence into the 45* tilted blade.

It gives me support of the piece to the fence.. it completey encloses the blade so your hand can't get into it.. it extends beyond the blade on the keeper side but not on the off-cut or waste side as we are talking about. Even though you see the forward portion of the feather beyond the blade.. there is a 1" gap on the off-cut side of the spring-board creating the free zone. Just look carefully beyond the blade as the bottom of the sacrifical face has been cut off to creat the free zone.

Click on the picture to enlarge...

Regards...

[cabinetman]

The featherboard placement "before the cut" is the exact argument I was discussing. This holds true even for straight cuts. There will be an open end (cut), at the same time there is a closed (uncut) section. The possibility of wood movement or IOW "walking" after the cut exists. I'm voicing my opinion. Nobody has to agree with me.
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[SARGE..g-47]

The featherboard placement "before the cut" is the exact argument I was discussing. This holds true even for straight cuts. There will be an open end (cut), at the same time there is a closed (uncut) section. The possibility of wood movement or IOW "walking" after the cut exists. I'm voicing my opinion. Nobody has to agree with me.
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The possibitlity of walking into the blade should be covered by the splitter or riving knife as that's one reason you use one. It should keep any severed portion of the wood from touching the dangerous rear rising teeth which are the one's that cause kick-back.

And yes.. it it similar to why a short fence is a mandatory iafety requirement in Europe on all TS's. By not having a fence beyond were the blade actually completes a cut.. you create a free zone. Meaning that reaction wood that is so severe cannot open wildly.. hit the long fence and rebound back into the rear rising teeth. If is is severe enough.. even though you have a splitter or riving knife .. it can flex it as most splitters and riving knives are made much to thin and will flex. If it flexes enough.. the stock could touch those rear teeth and once it does... You have launch...

[cabinetman]

The possibitlity of walking into the blade should be covered by the splitter or riving knife as that's one reason you use one. It should keep any severed portion of the wood from touching the dangerous rear rising teeth which are the one's that cause kick-back.

And yes.. it it similar to why a short fence is a mandatory iafety requirement in Europe on all TS's. By not having a fence beyond were the blade actually completes a cut.. you create a free zone. Meaning that reaction wood that is so severe cannot open wildly.. hit the long fence and rebound back into the rear rising teeth. If is is severe enough.. even though you have a splitter or riving knife .. it can flex it as most splitters and riving knives are made much to thin and will flex. If it flexes enough.. the stock could touch those rear teeth and once it does... You have launch...

I'm not in Europe, and if they think a short fence is safer, not much I can say to that. If it was that safe it would be mandatory here and a required retrofit initiated. Splitters and riving knives are suggested for safety but can present their own problems. I'll just repeat myself in that I wouldn't recommend methods or procedures that I knew or thought were unsafe.
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[SARGE..g-47]

I'm not in Europe, and if they think a short fence is safer, not much I can say to that. If it was that safe it would be mandatory here and a required retrofit initiated. Splitters and riving knives are suggested for safety but can present their own problems. I'll just repeat myself in that I wouldn't recommend methods or procedures that I knew or thought were unsafe.
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I'm aware you are not in Europe.. and I was corrected by Ray in a PM just a moment ago that the short fence is not mandatory. It is the short arbor for dadoes that is even though you can use one in a home shop if you have a saw with a longer arbor.. if you don't get caught which is not likely.

I don't think that much will be mandated here as there is no push. Just recently riving knives were mandated to be on new saws by Jan. 2009 and on all old designs (not ones privately owned but ones that had a splitter before the mandate that a manufacturer might continue to make) by 2017. The blade break on the SS is not mandatory and there is no push to make it mandatory as the inventor was turned down when he tried. So... who regulates safety here? Why did they wait this long to mandate a riving knife?

And what problems do splitters and riving knives present? Other than having to remove a splitter on non through cut.. and a riving knife if it is the tall type... what is the problem. Splitters have to be put on a U.S. saws by mandatory requirement by the manufacturers. It is not just suggested. And of course you can take it off as most probably do.

So... I am stating just as you do that by using a feather-board is not something I would do if I thought if was not safe. I think the majority would agree it it a safe practice.. So.. there are two sides to a coin as there are two sides to this argurment.