Cutting plywood on the BT3x00

[Schleeper]

Within the next month or two, I plan on using my BT3000 to cut and dado a lot of cabinet-grade plywood for new kitchen cabinets. I'm looking for suggestions on what other accessories I should be using in order to get optimum results. (I have cut plywood on a table saw in the past, but it was decking for an attic floor that didn't require any precision cuts, and it was done on a Craftsman bench saw.)

My saw configuration is pretty basic. Since picking it up a couple of months ago, all I've added is a zero clearance throat plate (not counting a router, and the fence I made for it.) There's no other optional equipment. I should be okay, I think, bladewise. I already own a WWII 40T, and I have WWII 30T TK (with dampener) and Duraline Hi-A/T 100T blades on order, in addition to a Freud 6-inch Super Dado set. Any other "minimum requirements" or "strongly recommended items" I should be aware of?

I'm not sure where I'm going to buy the plywood, yet. If I buy at HD or Lowes, I know they can make some of the cuts for me. Would it be worthwhile having the 4x8 sheets roughcut into 4x4's at the store?

Any other helpful tips anyone has to pass along, will be more than appreciated!

[LCHIEN]

One. I'd lose the blade dampener. Good choice of blades, though.
Two. Cutting 4x8 sheets of plywood on a BT3000, I would only do that if I had a full rail extension kit and legs and a pretty good infeed table and outfeed table. Or possibly a very good helper to replace the infeed table (still need the outfeed and wide table kit).
My reasoning is that the sheet is unweildy enough that you can get in trouble if its not supported everywhere. Worst thing is you end up tipping over the saw, next worst is if you jam the plywood and seize the blade and break the belts. I would only attpmt that if I had it equipped as I suggested above. I don't have all that stuff (takes a lot of room). The way I would do it depends on the situation and the sizes of the final panels. One way is to break it up to slightly oversize using a circular saw and sawhorses for support, then trim to final size on the BT. The other way is as you suggest to have it precut to 4x4 panels which are much easier to handle. but may or may not be convenient to the final sizes you need. You could also have them cut into three or four pieces for an additional small charge, which may help if they are closer to your finished sizes.
Again the BT is certainly capable of cutting large plywood, but only with adequate support would I say its safe.

[mwilkins]

I did my kitchen cabinets a few years ago. I do not like to have the sheets cut before I get home, Often find it causes waste. I do the layout on the garage floor with the plywood on strapping, then use a circular saw to rough cut the panels to size. Then take them to the shop in the basement and do the finish cuts. I have used a flat clamp or strait edge to guide the saw if I do not have a good edge to work from. This way you do not end up with a piece that is an inch too short and you can only get one panel from and have to go get another sheet. As for getting your plywood. I have not been very happy with HD or Lowes plywood recently. I have started using from a local lumber yard. More money but much better plywood. Especial for the exposed ends.

[Slik Geek]

In my humble opinion, if you buy your "cabinet grade" plywood at HD, you will be very sorry. The prices are low, but the quality is much, much lower. I made that mistake once. I had never seen plywood that bent so easily without kerfs (after ripping a piece and exposing the large voids in the laminations, the piece flopped around like crazy).

My most recent cabinet-grade plywood purchase was from Menards. It cost more than HD, but the plywood was made in the U.S. and the quality was significantly better than HD. Haven't used Lowes yet so I can't speak for their supplier quality on plywood.

I use my BT3000 on full sheets of plywood by myself quite succesfully, but I have the full extension table and have two Ridgid Flip Top supports that come in very handy. (The Flip Tops are available at HD). A third support or roller is even better. Without the wide table, you can still cut full sheets, but you will be limited to the size you can rip. It might help to wax the table surface to help the plywood glide.

Before I added the wide table, I sometimes did a rough cut with a circular saw to reduce the size. (As you suggested, you can have it cut at the store).

Hence, my "strongly recommended items" are at least a couple Flip Tops and a lubrication of the saw table surface.

[docrowan]

I use home made saw boards and a high quality (for me) Ridgid circular saw to chop up 4' X 8' panels into manageable pieces. I have two saw boards that I made from plywood, one 48 inches and one 96 inches. I clamp one of these to my panel and get a very straight, accurate cut. I also made a sacrificial plywood grid to set up on sawhorses so I don't have to bend over to make the cuts. The BT3100 I use for dado's, saw kerfs, and precision trimming to size on panels no more than 2' x 4', or sometimes 1' X 8'.

It's funny, I use a small saw to cut panels, and a big saw to cut small panels.

[gjat]

Personally, I do not even attempt to cut full sheets on a tablesaw, not even with supports. To me, a table saw is not the proper tool for sheet goods bigger than 30" x 24". I've had great success with a circular saw with a supplemental base and guide and spending a few bucks for a quality blade. I also often use a backer board and a razor knife to prevent splintering. Remember, to put the good side on the bottom with a circ saw, good side up on the table. It only takes a few cuts to get accustomed to getting a straight, clean cut with the circ.

I've done dados on the table saw, but never on plywood. I think using a router would be safer and more accurate on a larger sheet. You would set up a straight edge that lined up a few panels and cut them all on the same time. Then again, I'm still mobile enough that I set up plywood on 2x4's on the floor to cut. Some may have a hard time getting back up.

[big tim]

I have cut plywood on the BT3000, not a full sheet of 3/4, but 1/2 sheets, a full sheet is just too heavy to handle by one person. But I have cut a full sheet of 1/4". Make sure you have lots of support on the infeed as well as on the outfeed side. I also use an extra long fence, which I attach to the BT3 fence

One. I'd lose the blade dampener. Good choice of blades, tho.......

Why is that Loring, is that concern specific to the BT3?
Forrest themselves highly recommends the use of the dampener/stiffener on the ouside of the blade!

Tim

[steve-norrell]

I second both Loren's and MWilkins' excellent suggestion but would add that handling the weight of full sheets of 3/4 in ply could be difficult, especially if you are amongst the more mature folks, with various back problems, who follow this site.

I often get plywood from either Lowes or the Borg but you have to be VERY careful and pick your own sheets. The advantage, at least here in Anchorage, is that the box stores are the only dealers that offer free cutting. With pre-planning you should be able to minimize waste -- have them cut about an inch longer than you will need and trim to size. Carefully selected plywood from the box store could be a reasonable compromise.

Voids in the end grain are, indeed, ugly. But aren't you going to use some kind of a face frame? Also, unless the voids are many and large, it is questionable whether or not they affect the structural integrity of the wood. IMHO, warped and delaminated plywood from the box stores is a much bigger issue than voids.

Lastly, the investment in infeed and outfeed tables, especially the kind that fold up, is an excellent, perhaps even necessary, addition to your shop. Rail extensions are also very, very handy. I use them and would not be without.

I know that some will not share my opinions, but good, wide-ranging advice is what this forum is all about.

Regards, Steve

[Schleeper]

Loring, I've never used a dampener before; I paid the extra $20 to get it, just to see what kind of difference it makes (if any.) The Forrest recommendation notwithstanding, I'll likely take it off if I don't see or hear a difference.

Funny you should mention tipping the saw over. When I had to cut the sheets for my attic floor, I ended up draping heavy bags of salt or sand over the horizontal base supports for just that reason. Even though the BT3000 base is more stable, I'll probably add some weight just the same. (Although, adding the rail extensions and legs, along with the outfeed table, will probably reduce the chance of tipping.)

Sounds like everyone assumes I'll be using 3/4 (23/32) inch ply. I'm actually leaning toward using 1/2" (15/32), especially for the wall cabs. What are the pros and cons? (If I were planning to build frameless cabs, I might think differently.)

I'm not necessarily partial to buying lumber from the big box stores; I was just using them as an example. Once I decide on type and thickness, I'm sure I'll be checking out the quality and prices at several places.

How useful is it to add the rail extensions without adding more table area?

I don't currently have featherboards for my fence (except for the router,) but I'm already making plans to get a couple. I assume they will be useful for keeping the plywood from riding up and over the blade?

I like the idea that a couple of you had about first cutting to rough size with the circular saw (and/or at the lumber yard,) and then cutting to finish size on the BT3000.

(BTW, if money were no object, I'd have me one of them Festool plunge saws with the guide rails, and forget about cutting plywood on the table saw entirely!)

[MikeMo]

My experience with cutting plywood

I'll toss in a few thoughts from making lots of little pieces of plywood out of big pieces:

• I would avoid Lowes veneer plywood like the plague! The last few times I bought at Lowes, I ended up having to sacrifice large sections of it due to massive voids that went all the way through the veneer covering.
• I've had very good luck with local lumber yards for veneer plywood and hardwoods. They charge more (including cutting charges) but in the long run, I figure I get a much better cut yield.
• If you do cut it yourself, really consider using a circular saw with a really good blade on the floor. I've done it two ways, either supporting it with scrap 2x4's, or with a sheet of expanded foam insulation. The foam is really the easiest, since you don't have to worry about the plywood sagging under you. When the foam gets too cut up, trash it and buy another.
• For a cutting guide, there's some slick clamping systems out there that will hold your saw in alignment. My main problem with a handheld saw has been it tries to creep to the side on me. Rockler has a system that has a clamp that goes across the sheet, and a base that attaches to the saw. Otherwise, just be aware of saw creep and cut against a straightedge.

Good luck with your project, building them yourself will really result in far nicer cabinets than you can buy commercially anymore!

[Sawatzky]

I would caution you using 1/2 ply for the cabinets. 3/4 is much stronger, and I believe is what most cabinets are made from. As far as ripping full sheets on the BT, I have had good luck. I do have a large outfeed table that I set the plywood on. then I lower the blade on the BT and side the plywood onto the saw. I use two roller stands in front for infeed. Then I raise the blade, turn on the saw and rip. It is pretty easy. I do have and extension table that allows me to rip to 44 inches, and I added an extentioin wing that fits inside the rails on the left side of the saw. The nice thing about the BT is that it is easy to adapt and upgrade. With a few nuts and bolts, and a few pieces of plywood, you can easily add more table width and have safer results with large sheets. If you feel safer with a circular saw and sawboard, go that route. This is just what works for me.

[drumpriest]

All good suggestions here. If you have a way to get the full sheets home, great. What I do is put two 2x4s on to some saw horses, and use a straight guide and a 40T blade in my circ saw to rough out the pieces. Then I finish cut on my TS. Even though I now have a PM2000 I think this is still a better way than try to wrestle a huge sheet onto the saw.

As to the ply itself, I've used Lowe's ply once, and it was horrible. I've used quite a bit of the HD ply, and it's hit or miss. I've had more good luck than bad, but have had a couple of sheets where it was pretty lousy. I tend to design stuff for that ply so that the joinery holds everything straightish, and that I don't have a span of much over 2-3' without some joinery to do so.

3/4 ply is def the way to go for cabinets, they end up doing more work than you suspect.

[poolhound]

For a cutting guide, there's some slick clamping systems out there that will hold your saw in alignment. My main problem with a handheld saw has been it tries to creep to the side on me. Rockler has a system that has a clamp that goes across the sheet, and a base that attaches to the saw. Otherwise, just be aware of saw creep and cut against a straightedge.

This straight edge jig is brain dead simple. I know this one is for router dadoes but the same principle works with your CS. I have a bunch of double sided ones for different lengths. I have a 4ft one for use with my CS.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/rtrdadojig.html


Basically cut a piece of 1/4 ply or mdf a few inches wider that the edge of your CS to the balde measurement. Add a joined HW fence. The run your CS along the fence which rips the base to the exact width. Then all you have to do is mark a line on the ply, match the edge of the jig to it and rip away.

[LinuxRandal]

I use a gcss (guided circular saw system), and would recommend that you at least use sawboards as the others have suggested.

That said, I have had more hits with the borg plywood, but I am picky, and I searched through it, and it was ONLY for shop cabinets and jigs.

That said, I am wondering if any of you have used the Borgs Melamine? I was thinking of using it with some conformat screws and place an end panel on it. (basically a spill cabinet)

[steve-norrell]

That said, I am wondering if any of you have used the Borgs Melamine? I was thinking of using it with some conformat screws and place an end panel on it. (basically a spill cabinet)

I have used Borg melamine for wall panels (in a wash room) but had to use some kind of edging to cover the ends. So far it is working as intended -- essentially no wear, and occasional spills or splatters wipe up nicely.

I was concerned about using it for shelving because the melamine coating looked awfully thin. So, instead, I use pre-made melamine shelves that I cut down to size and use the finished edge as the front of the shelf. So far, that has also worked well for me.

I have not used the Borg's pre-cut panel pieces to build cabinets.

Regards, Steve