Very hard to raise or lower blade - 3100

[JayStevans]

Hi,

I've read through the posts on this topic and done everything they say, at least everything I found. However, raising or lowering my BT-3100's blade is still a two-hand job.

I just finished using my favorite Christmas gift - an air compressor - to blow out every particle of sawdust from inside the saw with particular attention to the gear mechanism that connects the raise/lower handle to the bolt that raises and lowers the motor assembly and to that bolt itself - it's still very stiff.

One thing I have noticed that may be germane - when I change modes (from lowering to raising or vice versa) there is 3/4 of a turn or more of "play" before the motor moves at all. I checked carefully, the gears turn immediately (no "play") and so does that vertical bolt - but the motor just sits there for 3/4 of a turn or more and only then starts moving. However, raise/lower is very stiff.

The blade angle adjustment is smooth and easy, a one-hand job, maybe even one finger!

My first question - is the vertical adjustment supposed to be this stiff, a two-handed job? I think no but figured this is the first thing to check - if it's normal then I'll stop trying to "fix" it.

Second - what should I use to lube the gears and that vertical bolt? Can I use "dry silicone" spray? Or do I need to use powdered graphite? I know not to use "wet" silicone. I think that yellow can of silicone spray they sell at Home Depot is "wet" silicone - true?

Third question - is the "play" I find when changing modes normal or does it indicate a problem? If it's not normal, I'd welcome suggestions on how to fix it.

Fourth - if the height adjustment remains stiff after I get the lube onto the gears and the vertical bolt what should I do next?

Oh yes, I have checked that the pawls are not the problem (I read the FAQ).

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. This forum has been a big help in the past.

[steve-norrell]

I just completed the annual open-the-side-and-vacuum-out-the-dust cleaning of my trusty BT3100.

I used dry silicone on the gears and rubbed candle wax on the sides and back of the slides for raising and lowering the blade and motor. Waxing the slides made a huge difference.

I can't answer the other questions for personal experience.

Regards, Steve

[LCHIEN]

the main mechanism is identical in operation to my BT3000. I find that the elevation screw is 12 Threads per inch, turning the crank 12 times raises it an inch or about .083 inches per turn. I find a backlash of less than .005" approaching the same point from either direction or about 1/18th of a turn, so yes, 3/4 turn is highly excessive.

it should be very easy to one-handedly raise or lower the blade not stiff at all
3/4 turn slop is unacceptable.

Besides the gears, The points you need to lube are
the place where the elevation screw drives the motor assembly, lube the screw with dry lube spray or graphite
The place where the motor assembly slides up and down the chassis, a rectangular opening. You need to lube the sliding areas with a dry lube, Some people rub waxed paper over it transferring the wax but i think much better is to use johnson's paste wax applied and rubbed in, allowed to dry for 5-10 minutes, then buffed off on the sliding surfaces. Run the blade up and apply then down all the way and apply again so that the entire length is treated.

make sure that nothing is dragging e.g. blade guard, splitter etc.

using dry lube and wax prevents sawdust buildup.

[Uncle Hook]

I would suggest using a dry spray lube, but I would avoid using a silicone based product on your woodworking equipment. If silicone gets on your wood it can cause cause finishing problems. I avoid it all together.

I wonder if your blade raising problem is caused by bad shims. Shims are known to cause blade raising problems on the earlier models of the BT3000. Ryobi fixed the problem, but I forget which model - perhaps starting with the 3100. In any event read the forum posts on shims.

[JayStevans]

Some additional information

Mine is definitely a 3100.

In a prior read through the forums I gleaned that the shim problem was supposedly solved with the introduction of the 3100. So, I've not chased shims at all.

However, as an experiment, I opened the side of the saw and disassembled the internal blade guard dust catcher thing (sorry, it must have an official name but I don't know it and the manual is downstairs in the shop). Mostly, I just wanted to start stripping it down to see if there was anything binding that I'd been unable to see when it was all assembled. I also figured waxing would be easier if I could actually get my hands in there. Well, no burst of lightning, no evident problem.

So, just to see what would happen, I loosened the four bolts that hold the motor to the slider assembly. And like major magic - my saw raises and lowers just about like I think it ought to, smooth and with one hand. I didn't loosen them much, just a turn or two each.

I assume I cannot just leave it that way (though I am sorely tempted because it finally works OK).

Does anyone know what this tells me? I noticed in the manual that there are "spring shims" between the slider assembly and the "rails" it rides on. Is it possible dirt is trapped in there?

Thanks.

By the way - though I have had this saw for a couple years ti saw little use until a couple months ago. I am not sure that the raise/lower mechanism was ever one-hand-easy. In other words, I'm not sure if this stiffness is something that developed over time or if it was original. When I first got the saw I knew far too little to tell if it was wrong to be so stiff. And now I cannot remember if it ever was not-stiff. I hope that last part makes sense.

Thanks again.

[catta12]

I have a porta-Ryobi BTS20R but have had almost exactly the same thing happen with it. When new it was much easier to raise or lower. Raising was more difficult than lowering, my guess is the gravity factor made the difference. I checked all of guards first of course, nothing there and still the same when all removed (unplugged machine of course). I used candle wax on the bolts and on the tracks where the motor rides up and down. This reduced the effort of raising and lower in half after a few runs up and down. I will probably try some dry graphite later.

I also have ¾ - 1 turn slop in the raise/lower crank. On my model of saw, there is a nut that rides the shaft that you turn by hand. The nut is in a forked carriage. The carriage then moves the motor up and down. The slop is the nut traveling from one side of the slotted carriage to the other. Maybe not the way it was designed, but it isn’t anything that is stripped, just some extra space.

This might not be what you have going on, but this is what I found with my saw. Hope it at least helps you track the problem down.

Alan

[LCHIEN]

Just because the shims won't fall out doesn't mean they don't need to be kept clean and lubed. The BT3100 resolved the "shims falling out" retention problem. When they stick they don't fall out anymore, they just stick.
Clean and lube the tracks.

[leehljp]

Two other things that I didn't see mentioned above, but could have overlooked:

1. if the threads are stripping, you can get a helicoil insert and fix it. Several over the years have done this. Search for "helicoils" on the BT3x00 forum and you should find more information.

2. On the 3100, the bottom nut to the threaded rod that raises and lowers has to be set just right. I haven't had this problem but I have seen this mentioned a dozen times in the past 3 or 4 years.

IF someone else sees this post and wants to make a comment or elaborate more on either of these points, please do.

3. Oh, and an occasional problem: the riving knife is rubbing against the back of the throat plate. Happens often enough, so check this out first.

[footprintsinconc]

perfect timing, i just had that same problem on the last two days of building and was going to post the same question. so now i am going to go back and read through the post again.

THANKS!!

[footprintsinconc]

i am in the process of using johnson's paste wax in the opening where the shims contact the saw.

dumb question: what is an example of dry lube? or graphite? does it come in a spray can or a bar that you rub in? is there a brand that you can tell me and where i can possible get it?

thanks!

[JayStevans]

I had previously waxed the tracks, didn't help a lot. That's why I tried loosening the bolts that attach the slider to the motor assembly.

I gave everything another cleaning and then gave the tracks a coat of Johnson Paste Wax (my previous waxing had been via the wax paper trick mentioned above). The blade now raises and lowers quite reasonably.

I would still, like the previous poster, like some guidance on dry lubricant. Neither Home Depot nor Lowes has any dry lubricant other than those little tubes of powdered graphite for locks.

The Ryobi manual says to use "dry silicone or teflon spray."

Rockler sells "Drycote" but their site doesn't explain what it is.

Can someone recommend a specific product and/or source? I'd be grateful.

Lastly, I still have that "play" in the raise/lower mechanism but now that raise/lower works smoothly and easily I can live with that. I'm not up for pulling the saw so far apart and installing the coil to refurbish the threads - maybe later if it gets bad.

Thanks again for all the help on my problem.

Jay

[LCHIEN]

Dry Lubricants

Dry lubricants are where there is not a oily or greasy residue that can attract dust and dirt.

examples of dry lube are graphite powder, wax, or PTFE(teflon)-based spray on lubes, and Molybdenum bisulfides which are marketed as dry lubricants.

Since the shims ride on flat exposed surfaces I just use paste wax.

[Black wallnut]

I use a product called "Lock-ease" which has an evaporative carrier and a graphite lube, sprays on wet carrier evaporates leaving a film of graphite. With this the steps I follow are:

1. Once a year I detail strip and clean the shims, locker bracket, and guide holder. At the same time I clean and relube the elevation screw.
2. Before every major project I vac out the shim area and re-apply "lock-ease".
3. Whenever in the middle of a project it feels that the blade is getting harder to raise I repeat step 2.

This might seem like a bunch of work but the smoothness is worth it as well as extending the life of the saw. The shims are fine but the real weak point is the elevation threads in the motor boss. Repair is possible but expensive. So far my saw has lasted 7 years and will likely last many more with just this little bit of matenience. IMHO the same should also be done with the BT3100 saws.