BT3100 new from a buddy...

[brecklundin]

I have a buddy here in town who has a new in the box (and no not from theback of a truck... ) BT3100 that he was given as a house warming gift when they bought a new home a couple years ago or so. Thing is he SUCKS at any working with his hands.

Anyway, he wants to sell the saw and knows I could use one and the price he thought was OK is $300. It sounds OK to me but I wanna be certain...I mean there will be no warranty because it was purchased well over a year ago (prolly around 2 yrs ago) and it is just the standard saw as it comes in the box. Nothing more or less (never even had the shrink wrap removed).

I wanna grab it as it's a better saw then I can see finding for that price anywhere in town. But thought since I found this place I might ask.

Thanks!!

[gwyneth]

With patience and craft, you can get the Sears version, with the wheeled fold up stand, for as little as $359.

Pluses: warranty coverage, the cart, and getting to laugh at the router stuff that comes with it. Minuses: dealing with Sears; you've got to get another blade; and possibly make a stand (the wheeled foldup cart is very solid, very stable, has outrageously big footprint set up and cannot be moved without folding up).

After extensive shopping for new and used BTs and the Sears version, my thought is that the $300 is slightly high, but then, it's a friend and bargaining may be??? On the other hand, he did get it as a gift.

It's worth $300 (i.e., you won't feel way overcharged after you use it) but it would be hard for him to get $300 if he were selling to a stranger.

I paid $230 in November for a lightly used one.

BT pricing may turn out to be like old VW beetles--anybody who went to college in the days when $500 bought a primo one (and $250 got you an adequate one) knows what I mean.

[LCHIEN]

that's high, when they went out of production mid last year they were going for $300 list and on clearance could be had for down to $240 or so.
Considering the warranty is long gone and its now an old model I think $300 is too much for the going market unless this is a really good friend who needs the money and you really want this saw.

its a good saw with some caveats (discussed in this forum at greath length)... I'd venture to say a new in box BT3100 sold by a patient buyer would fetch between $200-250.

[brecklundin]

gwyneth:

Thanks for the well reasoned reply. I have actually been wanting that 21829 because of the cart...hadn't been down to Sears to look at one, if our local place even has one on display. I would likely be the guy who LIKES the cart because I do have space restrictions. I have to keep all my shop tools in an 8x10 storage shed, we are in a mobile park and well, whenever I want to work on ANYTHING I have to basically rebuild a shop on the patio each time. Lemme tell ya dragging my radial arm saw out is a real PITA for sure.

Sounds like your impression of the router table on the Sears saw is, ummm, less then good? Bummer as I kinda liked the idea of it having a router table. Though a dedicated table is not expensive at all...or I could just build one. Either way that component was not a selling point for me really, it was simply a "...gee that would be cool..."

Also as of now my only bench saw is my old reliable 10" craftsman radial arm saw. But I hate ripping on it...it's has something to do with staring down at the edge of all those carbide capped teeth...but I have become really good with making it work and have built enough "out tables", side tables & what-not so using it is easier than it once was...but I really want to retire that saw for the most part. I'm also very tired of cutting dado's on the dang thing too. But darn it the thing accurate.

LCHIEN:

I appreciate your take on price. I was not sure of the original price. I might just offer him $250 because he is a buddy but might also try and get it for $200 because he was TOLD to get rid of it...period...hehehehe...and if ya can't "use" your buds who can ya use...hehehehe...actually we go back and forth with this sorta thing all the time. So in a way it's a game between us...

I'll give it a bit of thought and see what shakes loose.

thanks a bunch!!

[steve-norrell]

I believe that the BT3100 is a good saw and worth $300, but the question is whether or not you can get it for less money. You have to weigh the likelihood of finding one for less vs. the "new in box" opportunity. Although the Sears model is a BT3100 clone, I believe that Sears has made some compromises that detract from the overall value (example: the router table arrangement). Here in Anchorage, I would probably try to talk him down a bit because the BT3100 just isn't available and shipping one up would be prohibitive.

As for the mobile base, I used the Jet base #708119 until I built one. http://www.jettools.com/shop/index.c...id=11603&vid=1 or http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...im/13357649-20. The specs on the base are just about 1/2 inch short but the stock Ryobi stand that comes with the BT3100 just fits inside the Jet base if you leave the bolts on the stand loose until after you get it into the mobile base. There is enough 'slop' in the bolt holes to make it fit and the Jet base has a smaller 'footprint'.

If I recall, the Jet base sells for some where in the $60 - $70 range, but you can often find for less on sale at local stores.

Good luck. Regards, Steve

[mpc]

The "accessory table" is what the router hangs from. It's not as large as most folks would like for a router table but it does work fine - and has served many people for quite some time. It's the fence parts that come with it that are the joke... 2 little hardwood bits about 6 inches long with a taper on one edge. Not really long enough to be a fence for anything and lining them up is a chore. They bolt to the top of the saw's rip fence via slotted 90 angle brackets: one slot near each end of the stick... so there is a lot of fore-n-aft play and angular play in each stick.

You're much better off making an upside-down "U" shaped piece that slips over the stock fence - or a separate assembly that clamps to the saw rails, then attaching your own faceplates to that. There are lots of ideas in this forum - look at the rest of the BT3x00 forums, completed projects, and tool forums for all sorts of ideas. The various bits of hardware that come with the "router kit" can be used to make this type of assembly. Use the "fence" pieces as stop blocks or scrap.

As for your other tools: any other "big" tabletop tools that need to be made portable? If so, take a look at Home Depot's website for the Ridgid Miter Saw Utility Vehicle - aka "MSUV." They just came out with a new design but the old one was highly rated... and is on closeout for $99. A deal-and-a-half for what you get. It's designed for miter/chopsaws but the surface is just a big flat sheet of metal so you can drill & bolt all sorts of things to this beastie. It folds down to a handtruck shape to make moving the tool easy. The only thing to watch for: putting a saw or something on this will make the saw fairly high off the ground. Fine for a chopsaw, lousy for a table saw, probably fine for a thickness planer too.

mpc

[JR]

You're getting good adavice on price.

On the topic of mobility, the new BT3100 might have casters for attachment to two of the legs. Do not be fooled into thinking this will provide mobility! They are barely useful, requiring the operator to lift one end of the saw far in the air and teeter around until there is landing, sometimes not gracefully. Something like the Jet base mentioned above is what you'd need. HF has a similar one for $40 right now. Or make your own.


The router table, also as mentioned above, is functional. The limitations of the accessory fence bits would not keep you from doing functional work. I used them for years before finally making custom fence this year. Those bits come up on the classifieds here periodically.


BTW - The pics are mine and you may use them any way you see fit. The IP on the designs belongs to Wood Magazine. Search your conscience before using

[gwyneth]

What Loren, Steve, MPC and JR said, plus more thoughts.

I have a smaller space to work with than you do--barely 5 ft. by 10 ft., and it's a traffic area between kitchen and porch door.

I really like the folding cart--the problem is that to move the saw, you've got to fold it up. That means shifting the rails, taking off the SMT and accessory table, and putting the fence either on its holder or somewhere else. That's a lot of work to move it a foot or two, and more important, requires at least checking the setups every time you put it all back on. At the most, with all that aluminum extrusion floating around, there's a huge risk of something getting bent or dinged inadvertently.

In the thread about 'mobile', Jim (I think it was) had a great idea about moving the cart's wheels. That would solve the cart's biggest problem--making it mobile, in addition to being portable.

It is the fence that makes the router stuff so funny. But, there are a lot of very useful parts in the router 'kit', all modular and all easily improved.

So it comes down to price and usage. Knowing that the cart probably isn't the intra-shop mobility solution, but an inter-site portability tool may help. Factor in the cost of a new blade, as well, because the blade that Sears throws in with might as well go straight to the craft sawblade painter in the nearest tourist trap.

At $300 for the real BT in the box vs--if you very carefully time and craft out the purchase $360 for the Sears--I'd think cart and warranty would win out.

At $250 or less for the real BT in the box, I'd take the BT.

By the way, as you must know by now, this forum is a strong argument for getting either or both.

[brecklundin]

Wow...what great feedback!! Thanks.

I have decided to pass on the BT3100 for now. I think I am gonna shop for the 829 instead. It will be easy as I live a block away from our Sears store and pass by there every day on my walks. Sooooo, soon as I see the deal I'll jump on it. In the mean time I'll just make do with "old reliable" radial arm saw.

And thanks for clearing up the router table extension. I can see the issue and no reason it can't be managed and customized. I just really like the way it folds up.

I did find another BT3100 on eBay and it's new too...but the guy wants $100 shipping...some days I dunno where these people get their shipping rates. But I also saw someone was selling the cart for the Sears saw. It was gonna be about $100 with shipping. So if I got the BT from my buddy and bought the cart I would have been looking at the same price as the 829 new with warranty. Because of that I could only see paying $150 for the BT3100. And I think that would hurt his feelings. I am sure someone will buy it soon enough. Heck I would even consider the 829 at the $450ish it's on the site for now...if the shipping was free. But really I am not in a hurry to buy so I'll wait until the time is right. I have had GREAT luck at our Sears store. Bought a couple of the profession models power tools recently and saved $150ish because they were the last of a clearance and had extra discounts. Last year I scored a wonderful dual-fuel slide in range with ceramic-glass top and everything...the list was $1299 and I got it for $299...I redid the whole kitchen because of that stove. Figured I save the $1000 so why not use it to put in new countertops, sink (swanstone via eBay for just $65 delivered, got lucky), rangehood (Sears markdown from $299 to $39)...sooooo, I am thinking a bit of patience as suggested will net a saw this summer some time...I hope as I do need one sometime this summer, more remodeling on tap.

I like the look of that RMSUV...not sure if the radial saw would fit on it though. It is really top and back-of-center heavy. I do have wheels on the thing now but still it's a PITA to move around. And the height is FINE in that case as they sit pretty high already. But I might just opt for a couple

I really do appreciate the feedback especially since I am a new id around here. Not many places seem so friendly and forth-coming...so your time is very much apprecated. Plus I have not shopped for any major tools in years so I am kinda-sorta out of touch what is decent these days. I can use the added info a bunch!!

[lcm1947]

A lot of good advise so let me chime in. He's a buddy, he wants to sell it, warranty has expired so I say $200.00 would be a fair price for both of you. I guess he could part it out but he may not be willing to go to all that trouble. Nope, hit him up for selling it for $200.00 and you both come out straight. IMHO.

[JimD]

If you want mobility with the BT3100, Rod Kirby's design had a lot of merit. He just built a low cabinet for it to sit on and had drawers underneith. A good first project. A sheet of plywood and a set of good casters would be less than $100.

The other way to look at the price is the BT3100 isn't available anymore and there is nothing really equivalent on the market. The BT3000 sold for $600 or so when it first came out....

I would offer $200 and go up to $250 and make myself a rolling base.

Jim

[gwyneth]

I did find another BT3100 on eBay and it's new too...but the guy wants $100 shipping...some days I dunno where these people get their shipping rates.

That is actually a very good shipping price--there's a store in Colorado that had a couple of factory refurbished BTs at a great price towards the end of last year, but getting one to Wisconsin would have been about $135--to a commercial location. More to a residence.

The box for it is undoubtedly smaller than for a 21829, because the Sears version packages up the entire thing in one unit, inside a box that's about 4 ft. x 3 ft. x 2 ft.

But I vote with the others--offer your buddy $200 and compromise at $250. You know that saw's history, your friend can use the money, and it will be a much easier purchase than from Sears.

[bdaniels]

I paid $150 (after rebate) for my BT3100 about a year ago from HD. This was a close out sale. You could use that as a basis for the value of the saw.