No good saw for $300

[uglystick]

I was reading the "Shop Notes" section on Norm's website and stumbled on this entry from a BT3'er & Norm's response on 12-21-2003. It seems Norm & co. had said that there is no such thing as a good $300 table saw. They backtrack a little after people wrote in disagreeing:

"we stand by our conclusion that a well made, heavier, more accurate saw will be a better value in the long run."

Any comments? Do the darksiders on the forum agree?

[bigsteel15]

I own the BT3100.
Knowing then what I know now, I still would buy, and may buy another BT3100.
However, I also agree that one should buy the best they can afford for a table saw.
The unique features of the BT3 (sliding table, router mount) can all be had as aftermarket, higher quality accessories for higher priced saws.
If I had the budget and space for it, I would have a contractor saw with a Jessem sliding table and Mite-R-Excel and shop built router mount.
I like the flexibility of being able to construct a mobile cabinet so that would swing me to a contractor saw vs a cabinet saw.

EDIT:
BTW, in Canada, there is defintely no good saw for $300, IMHO.
BT3 is $399, Sears = is on sale for $599

[Knottscott]

Everyone's needs and likes are different, and "good" is relative. I'd expect there to be overwhelming support for the BT here...(imagine that! ) So while Norm may not want to own a BT, I have seen nice things built from $300 saws. I started on a smaller $300 saw and did fine, but upgraded to larger iron with an induction motor and would really miss the feel, mass (425#), surface area (27"x62"), and quietness of the larger saw. After building my own router table and adding an Incra miter guage (things I would add to most saws), I probably have close to $700 into my 22124.

[Ken Weaver]

Its the bang for the buck. With Norm's background, his choice is not surprising. I don't make my living from my woodworking, but it is my hobby and I do the best I'm able. My screw ups are not from my saw but my own brain farts, and that would be the case no matter what saw I might have. Would I like a top of the line unisaw? You bet. Would I buy one? No. Still have to pay kid's college. I'm grateful for what I have.

[Russianwolf]

Norm has lost all my respect

I know that there are alot of biases when you get into any hobby, but after reading his (or his staff's) responses about table saws back through 2000 I am at a loss.


1) Several people asked him about left tilt saws. The response is that they are really only useful to people who want to limit chipping on laminates. What about the safety factor when using the fence on the right (the comfortable place) and needing to tilt the blade? One response is just "Most woodworkers will be using a right tilt saw". They didn't ask what MOST woodworkers would be using, but what were the pros/cons of a left tilt.

2)The Delta Unisaw is not the saw for everyone. It seems that if you don't have one or can't afford a Unisaw that you will never be able to be a real woodworker in some peoples' opinions. Funny thing, but I have some **** nice furniture in my home that I made, and some other **** nice furniture in my home that was made before electricity was even discovered. I've come to the conclusion that I will never be part of the "Unisaw Party" even if it means building my own saw from scratch.

I am going to his site and lay down a challenge. With a budget of $3k for tools, how would he set up his basement shop (20'x20' with a post in the middle) and be able to work with rough cut lumber.

[Russianwolf]

Challenge sent. Let's see if they even bother to reply.

Message: I've watched your show for years and have a lot of respect for your skills and craft. However, as I was looking through some of the "Shop Notes" on your website I was very disturbed. I noticed from the responses that the Unisaw gets your thumbs-up, and I can understand that. But as a unisaw doesn't fit everyone's budgets or space, I'd like to here your opinions for a hobbyist shop (since I think most of your watchers are hobbyists). As far as I am concerned I am a hobbyist who tries to make his hobby pay for it's own supplies. Sometimes more successfully than others. Challenge: Stock your shop with the tools and layout within the following constraints in order to build projects with rough cut lumber. Ranking the tools by priority as you go. Constraints: Budget of $3000 for tools (large and small) and a basement shop (accessible through a bilco door with stairs) of 20' x20' with a support post in the center.

[Ken Massingale]

I no longer watch His Highness. He has lost touch with the everyday Joe woodworker. IMO, not only does he use tools far beyond the means of most of us, some of the techniques he demonstrates have no place in the making of nice pieces of furniture.

[Ken Weaver]

Mike - Nice idea - but doubtful you'll see a response. They'll refer you to the shows where they built cabinets for some guy's garage shop. I noticed they didn't talk about the tools in them.

[uglystick]

Table Saw 101

What a coincidence! I went to the New Yankee Cam link, and they are filming the Table Saw 101 episode right now. Looks to be at least 4 extra table saws in the shop.

[Ken Weaver]

What a coincidence! I went to the New Yankee Cam link, and they are filming the Table Saw 101 episode right now. Looks to be at least 4 extra table saws in the shop.

Anyone recognize the saws? Looks like a unisaw in the right corner, maybe a Delta to the left?

[eezlock]

His "Normness"

Mike & Ken, here is my response to your post about Norm and his choice of tools. It would be easy to make a comment like that when you would have the major tool companies shoveling their best tools to you to use on nationwide tv every week. The majority of woodworkers (like myself)
don't make our living doing woodworking...it is a weekend hobby at best.
We have to work within budget restraints, buying the best we can afford,
and making the projects we can build with our skills and training.

If you will notice...Norm always has the best of lumber,to work with
and they never show the mistakes and screw-ups he makes! I know that he makes some...we all do if we are trying anything new ...especially!

I, like most of the other people watch this show to gain insight and knowledge about woodworking but, not to have our choice of tools and
machines belittled by someone who is undoubtly misinformed about the choices out there. I for one, would like to have a Jet or Grizzly or
some other brand of saw ....but it is not to be right now. My BT3100
is performing well and I will keep it as long as I can ! If Norm's staff is
so good about choosing his equipment, why don't they get a Bridgewood
or some other high end saw for Norm to use?

This past Saturday 07/15/2006, I saw Norm cutting lumber on his saw
witNO blade guard or splitter...what gives here? All safety related articles strongly recommend using thes items to prevent a serious accident...but Norm doesn't use them. He would say they are removed for clarity purposes when demonstrating certain techniques on the saw! The week before that he did the same thing when he made the "Butterfly Table" on his show.
Sorry ,about the long post....but I totaly agree with you and I wanted to vent my feelings about the same thing. Eezlock

[steve-norrell]

. . . . He has lost touch with the everyday Joe woodworker. IMO, not only does he use tools far beyond the means of most of us. . . .

I strongly agree that he has lost touch with reality! Here are a couple of reasons why: My jaw hit the floor the other day when I saw his three or foot long oscillating belt sander. Truely the tool for someone with unlimited space and dollars. I also love his favorite term "dedicated toolX".

I have a BT3100, drill press, a CMS, and few hand held tools (sander, router) and they have to fit in a garage that has to be used as a garage (horrors) in the winter. The BT3100, and lots of other stuff, is on wheels so it can be moved out of the way when the snow flies.

I do watch the show, but it is kind of a dreamland experience for me.

The help I get from this forum far outshines the Yankee Workshop.

Regards, and thanks, to all.

[bigsteel15]

I think the only guys that are really in touch with what we might have at home is the Router Workshop guys. I don't like their work particularly, but that fact that they use simple techniques is realistic.
It does drive me nuts though that for a show about routing and only routing, they don't have a "proper" router fence. Just those strips of chewed up plastic. I kinow it works, but don't you think they could do a show on how to build a fence?

[Knottscott]

...If Norm's staff is
so good about choosing his equipment, why don't they get a Bridgewood
or some other high end saw for Norm to use? ...Eezlock

Most people consider the Unisaw (at least the vintage Norm has) to be a step above the Bridgewood, although the BW is a nice import.

[Knottscott]

They're probably all Deltas, and maybe one Porter-Cable.

The one in the foreground looks like one of the more upscale contractor's saws (iron wings, Bies fence). Way in the back, I think that may be the new(ish) 36-71x hybrid/cabinet model. The one at middle right looks like the portable Porter-Cable. Not sure about the fourth one, just in front of the hybrid ... maybe one of the mid-priced models like Lowe's used to sell?

It does look like the 3 stationary saws are Deltas...I can't really tell what the smaller one is, but I'd make an assumption that it's a PC portable. The contractor saw in the foreground looks like the 36-444 or even the 34-444 (note the dust collection ramp) with the old Delta T-fence or Unirip fence and steel wings (note the ridges) ...those models haven't been made for a few years. The contractor saw midway to the right looks like the brand new left tilt 36-982 with the built in mobile base, cast iron wings, extension table and Biesemeyer fence. The saw in the background looks like the 36-717 hybrid with the Biesemeyer fence and extension table.