New Craftsman hybrid saw w/ riving knife $362 plus tax

[Knottscott]

I regret ever starting this thread now...my apologies to all of BT3central.

I think I am experiencing "poster's remorse"

You posted about a deal, and follow up about a decision that made sense for you...nothing to regret from your end.

It's hard to argue the improved safety of a good splitter/riving knife. I've owned both, and find that the riving knife is a more elegant solution. Most stock splitters are poor examples, but a good aftermarket splitter is also very effective if used. One of the advantages of the riving knife is that it's not in the way as often and is more likely to be in place to do it's job....I wouldn't call it a gimmick at all, but I also wouldn't place a $500 premium on one either.

[bthorne]

I regret ever starting this thread now...my apologies to all of BT3central.

I think I am experiencing "poster's remorse"

I, for one, am interested in seeing pics of assembly and hearing your thoughts on the saw once you get it up and running. I hope this thread hasn't tarnished your enjoyment of the new saw. There's nothing better than that new tool smell (other than actually using the new tool, anyway). If it works for you and you like it, that's all that really matters.

[Garasaki]

I, for one, am interested in seeing pics of assembly and hearing your thoughts on the saw once you get it up and running. I hope this thread hasn't tarnished your enjoyment of the new saw. There's nothing better than that new tool smell (other than actually using the new tool, anyway). If it works for you and you like it, that's all that really matters.

Me too!

New tools are fun. Who cares what Charlie thinks

[dewi1219]

I, for one, am interested in seeing pics of assembly and hearing your thoughts on the saw once you get it up and running. I hope this thread hasn't tarnished your enjoyment of the new saw. There's nothing better than that new tool smell (other than actually using the new tool, anyway). If it works for you and you like it, that's all that really matters.

You don't have to worry about me enjoying the saw - I'm stoked about it. I've been without a TS for over two months and I'm jonesing to get back in the shop. I'm already planning a crosscut / miter sled, router table wing, and some actual projects too

[Charlie]

Hmmm, I guess that means no seeing pics of assembly and hearing your thoughts on the saw once you get it up and running as requested ?

[Black wallnut]

Charlie will no longer be joining us for the rest of his life! Many warnings. At least one time out and still he posts mean spirited words. I am so sorry dewi1219 that he interrupted your thread. I hope you have many safe and accurate cuts with your new saw!

[dewi1219]

I'll be happy to share pics and thoughts once I get it up and running. Here are a couple of initial thoughts based on a quick glance at the display model:
-The fence moved smoothly and locked securely. The locking motion was smooth as well, and it locks at the front and back rails. Maybe the negative reviews are based on alignment or accuracy of the fence, but I thought it was fine based on what I saw.
-The elevation and tilt mechanisms operated smoothly.
-The mobile base is very basic but works.
-There were adjustment issues on the stamped wings of the display model. This is probably due to a careless employee's assembly technique, but if I weren't planning to replace the wings this would be more of a concern for me. At least they won't rust like CI.

I'll post some thoughts on assembly and use as they happen. Charlie, I'm surprised you're so interested in it since you have already discounted it as junk.

[dewi1219]

Charlie will no longer be joining us for the rest of his life! Many warnings. At least one time out and still he posts mean spirited words. I am so sorry dewi1219 that he interrupted your thread. I hope you have many safe and accurate cuts with your new saw!

No problem Mark, he didn't bother me (though he tried his best). I enjoy spirited debate, but he did get a little carried away. I know you did what you had to do to enforce the rules. Thanks.

[JSUPreston]

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but I do have to comment on Charlie. Hank and I e-mailed each other a couple of times about Charlie during the Christmas holidays. After (I assume) Hank communicated with him, Charlie seemed to back off a little. I at one time did have him on my ignore list, but would then get confused when reading a thread with him in it, so I undid that. I was hoping that his attitude would change and that the "tool snobbery" would stop. Obviously that wasn't the case.

Thank you to all the mods who have had to put up with stuff like that. I know it isn't easy, and as far as I can remember, he is the first person (besides obvious spammers) to be banned from the board. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make.

[dbhost]

Moot point now...

I posted something stupid in response to Charlie... I should know better by now...

[dbhost]

If you missed my previous thread on the darkside search, I missed out on the R4511 clearance and was looking for the next best thing. Sears has quite a deal on their 21833 hybrid saw. I guess you would call it a hybrid - the motor is under the left side of the table instead of the right side like most of the other hybrids. List price is $549, currently on sale for $449. Use coupon code "Anextjump25300" for $25 off, and there is another 15% off (it was automatically deducted when I purchased online for store pickup). Total was $362 plus tax.

If you look at my thread above there was some discussion about the pros and cons of this saw. I won't argue them all here again, I'll just mention some of them for reference:

The good:
-Hybrid layout
-110 or 220V operation
-Tool-less riving knife
-Mobile base (though somewhat primitive)

The bad:
-Stamped steel extension wings (not a big deal if you're going to replace them anyway like I will)
-Difficult assembly reported on many reviews
-There were several complaints about the fence, though I thought it was really ok when I saw it in person
-Some complaints about fit and finish, mostly related to the stamped wings IIRC

Value is in the eye of the beholder, but for the features I think it is a very good deal. I bought online and picked up at my local store tonight.

FWIW, I think it was on SMC, anyway, one of the members on another board, has that very saw, with a Bench Dog Cast Iron router wing, and a cast iron wing on the other side... From what I understand the assembly instructions are about as bad as my HF bandsaw, and that is pretty pitiful, but once set up it is supposed to be a top notch machine for the price... I would rather have that saw with the riving knife and cast iron top than say the R4511. Not anything against those that bought the R4511, I am just really leery of that granite top is all... I am hoping time will prove me wrong. I just don't want to be a guinea pig with it is all...

[dewi1219]

FWIW, I think it was on SMC, anyway, one of the members on another board, has that very saw, with a Bench Dog Cast Iron router wing, and a cast iron wing on the other side... From what I understand the assembly instructions are about as bad as my HF bandsaw, and that is pretty pitiful, but once set up it is supposed to be a top notch machine for the price... I would rather have that saw with the riving knife and cast iron top than say the R4511. Not anything against those that bought the R4511, I am just really leery of that granite top is all... I am hoping time will prove me wrong. I just don't want to be a guinea pig with it is all...

I don't know that I will go with the Bench Dog wing - it costs almost as much as the saw itself. I will probably build my own wings, or go with a more budget friendly MLCS melamine extension.

The assembly instructions are absolutely horrible - no step-by-step pictures, only vague written instructions with references to an exploded parts diagram. The owner's manual can be downloaded from sears.com if anyone wants to see it.

At first I was really upset that I didn't get in on the R4511 clearance, and I still think it's a great saw. But I would be concerned about the top over the long haul.

[dbhost]

I don't know that I will go with the Bench Dog wing - it costs almost as much as the saw itself. I will probably build my own wings, or go with a more budget friendly MLCS melamine extension.

The assembly instructions are absolutely horrible - no step-by-step pictures, only vague written instructions with references to an exploded parts diagram. The owner's manual can be downloaded from sears.com if anyone wants to see it.

At first I was really upset that I didn't get in on the R4511 clearance, and I still think it's a great saw. But I would be concerned about the top over the long haul.

Watch Craigslist. Cast Iron wings come up from time to time...

I wonder, if, say for example... you came up with a cast iron solid wing... Could you get it milled for a router plate / miter slot, and T slots for the fence? How much would something like that cost. I have seen countless old contractor saws with bad motors for sale for $50.00 or less on CL... Maybe you could strip the wings off of one of those and haul them to a machinist...

Or... You could have the fun of shop building a top / wing. I am no fan of melamine after my drill press table experiences, but would definately suggest that hardwood ply and a hardboard skin would work well for you...

[dewi1219]

Watch Craigslist. Cast Iron wings come up from time to time...

I wonder, if, say for example... you came up with a cast iron solid wing... Could you get it milled for a router plate / miter slot, and T slots for the fence? How much would something like that cost. I have seen countless old contractor saws with bad motors for sale for $50.00 or less on CL... Maybe you could strip the wings off of one of those and haul them to a machinist...

As long as it was thick enough, sure you could have it milled. It wouldn't be cheap though, unless you had a buddy in the business. You are right about scavenging wings off of other saws. Maybe you can get them on ebay(?) if the shipping isn't too outrageous.

Honestly, I'm not sure now that I can't get by with the steel extensions. They're fairly sturdy. It might take some tweaking to flatten them and get them adjusted, but surely no more time than it would take to find, buy, clean, etc. a set of CI wings. Instead of replacing the steel wings I might just add an additional one of my making for the router where the spacer bar goes.

[JSUPreston]

dewi, looking forward to hearing how the saw works and seeing it assembled. When I got the Biesemeyer fence on clearance a few years ago, the instructions said that the wings had to be CI. I can sort of understand why, but since the extension table also has support legs, I wonder if that was just Delta's way of trying to get you to buy a more expensive saw.