Jet DC Cannister At Amazon

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I also got the letter this weekend, but now what to do with the other stuff I had ordered (hose, quick disconnect, etc.) in order to get to the $120 off level in order to get the $20 off. Of course, they didn't yet apply the $20 off so all this stuff was "full" price, which I don't need at full price, but added to get discount!

geez, guess I'll try returnign it all.

curt j.

Call Amazon. They should be able to pro-rata share the discount for you, which is what they typically do when they send out partial shipments. Example you had $120 items with $20 discount. $40 item was cancelled by Amazon due to their error. They should apply 66% of the $20 to your remaining shipment balance.

[Russianwolf]

Sent Amazon an email explaining that while I understand that they made a mistake, that is not not my problem. They advertised a price, I ordered, they confirmed and 4 days later they canceled. In my opinion that isn't ethical and could be deemed false advertising. We'll see what they decide to do.

I recall recently walking into Lowes and seeing some pavers which I was going to buy anyway for $1 each on sale for $.48 each. I bought all they had. Then the manager says, "that isn't right, they aren't on sale anymore" and he changed the price on the rack. I still walked out the door with the entire pallet for $.48 each. Their goof, not mine. You want to keep my business, you do the deal you advertised. I'll be back to buy more at regular price later.

If Amazon doesn't honor their advertised price, I have no problems taking my business elsewhere and letting the State AG decide if it was false advertising.

[sacherjj]

The problem here is that Amazon has a policy that they show when you sign up. They state that they reserve the right to cancel any order due to a pricing error and other issues. While this doesn't foster customer good will, it is legal for them to do so, because they indicated that they would.

http://www.lctjournal.washington.edu...2groebner.html

This article raises the real problem of brick and mortar stores finding the problem with the first customer checking out. For an Amazon, you can spread the word via message board and email and have thousands of orders before one human can see the issue. If isn't really apples to apples. There is no way for someone to look at each order and keep the prices as low as they are. Amazon is very careful with the wording during the order process and in the order notification email to allow them the legal capability of canceling pricing error orders.

[chrisNC]

You have to give some room for people to make mistakes. It's not as if you drove an hour to get there only to find the price was wrong. Also, I wonder if the State AGs have much weight with internet only retailers that do not have a presence in the state.

There has to be a line somewhere. An extreme example: If I'm working at a car dealer and I'm putting prices on cars and you walk up while I'm writing the number and see just $23 instead of the $23456 I'm partly done writing, can you say sold! and pull out some cash?

[Russianwolf]

The problem here is that Amazon has a policy that they show when you sign up. They state that they reserve the right to cancel any order due to a pricing error and other issues. While this doesn't foster customer good will, it is legal for them to do so, because they indicated that they would.

http://www.lctjournal.washington.edu...2groebner.html

This article raises the real problem of brick and mortar stores finding the problem with the first customer checking out. For an Amazon, you can spread the word via message board and email and have thousands of orders before one human can see the issue. If isn't really apples to apples. There is no way for someone to look at each order and keep the prices as low as they are. Amazon is very careful with the wording during the order process and in the order notification email to allow them the legal capability of canceling pricing error orders.

And what exactly is to prevent Amazon from intentionally doing this as a marketing ploy? Advertise a low price, get orders and additional orders that would not have been placed but for the "erroneous" priced item and then reneging on the original low price by claiming it was an error.

[sacherjj]

I would think that the thing that keeps Amazon from doing this as a marketing ploy is that it isn't very good marketing. I mean it might get many people to the site, but as soon as they get their orders cancelled, they don't really enjoy that they were brought there. Thus, it gets people to Amazon, but with bad will. Not a great idea for marketing.

[thrytis]

I've lost about $150 on an Amazon order before in combined Amazon discounts and rebates because they canceled one item in my order. I had even contacted them asking if they were going to cancel that item and they assured me that it would ship. About a week later (too late for me to purchase it someplace else and at least get the rebate savings) they canceled the order.

From this i learned not to order more than one item from Amazon at a time using a discount code unless it didn't matter if some of the items were canceled. (I also don't order from Amazon anymore unless it is at a significant savings from anyplace else and preferably at a loss to Amazon, but that is just me being resentful.)

[Russianwolf]

I would think that the thing that keeps Amazon from doing this as a marketing ploy is that it isn't very good marketing. I mean it might get many people to the site, but as soon as they get their orders cancelled, they don't really enjoy that they were brought there. Thus, it gets people to Amazon, but with bad will. Not a great idea for marketing.

Yet this type of marketing happens all the time. The typical bait and switch at the Car dealers (advertise a great deal on a car "one available at this price", but all the others are $5k more) gets people in the door and if 20% buy at the higher price, they make out.

This is exactly why it is illegal to "false advertise", because the marketing, while shady, works from the standpoint of the Corp. They don't care if they lose one or two costomers, 10% even, more will come to replace them. The consumers are the ones that get jipped.

Amazon has the right to cancel orders due to erroneous pricing. I have the right to call it false advertising and ask the AG to look into it. Here's the question: did they falsely advertise?

Someone mentioned above that there was no way for Amazon to look at every product to verify the prices are accurate. Why not? If they have the time to enter the items into the system, they have the time to look at the final page and make sure the price is correct. And if not, then they have to be prepared to eat the cost of the mistakes. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[LarryG]

Mike, you are of course entitled to your own viewpoint, but you're really reaching on this one. I have placed perhaps 75 orders with amazon.com over the last nine years. I have had exactly two orders cancelled because of a pricing error -- and in both cases I should have expected it because the prices were well into the realm of "If it seems too good to be true ..."

With bait-and-switch, there is a clear intent to deceive. The vendor advertises something for the sole purpose of trying to get the customer into the store to sell him something else. A pricing error on a computerized commerce system that eventually results in an order being cancelled isn't even remotely in the same league. Virtually all vendors have disclaimers to protect themselves against typographical errors and honest, human mistakes. There's a big difference between an honest mistake and deliberately deceitful false advertising.

[Ken Massingale]

Mike, you are of course entitled to your own viewpoint, but you're really reaching on this one. I have placed perhaps 75 orders with amazon.com over the last nine years. I have had exactly two orders cancelled because of a pricing error -- and in both cases I should have expected it because the prices were well into the realm of "If it seems too good to be true ..."

With bait-and-switch, there is a clear intent to deceive. The vendor advertises something for the sole purpose of trying to get the customer into the store to sell him something else. A pricing error on a computerized commerce system that eventually results in an order being cancelled isn't even remotely in the same league. Virtually all vendors have disclaimers to protect themselves against typographical errors and honest, human mistakes. There's a big difference between an honest mistake and deliberately deceitful false advertising.

Yep, right on all counts. Well stated, Larry.
ken

[Russianwolf]

There's a big difference between an honest mistake and deliberately deceitful false advertising.

And I will ask again, how do you know when it's one or the other?

I was pointing out the bait and switch as a common "shady" marketing ploy that is legal and works. If it didn't work, car dealers wouldn't have it listed in every newspaper.

I don't know that Amazon does "shady" marketing, but I don't know that they don't either. I have very little trust for corporate america.

In this case, I placed an order for a product that I wouldn't have otherwise ordered from Amazon if it hadn't been for the original deal. Now I am stuck paying for the one completed order without getting the original deal that brought me there in the first place. I now have to either find a different way of doing what I had intended, or go through the hassle of returning the item that I received but have no further use of.

I have another question. If I put up disclaimers all over my website, then intentionally false advertise and cancel all the orders once I receive the traffic/business, am I protected? Can you legalize false advertising?

[sacherjj]

I guess my answer to how you know if it is one or the other is percentages. If Amazon had 5% or better of their transactions work like this, I would think something was up. This is by far the minority of transactions. If you lost out on a discount because if a cancel, Amazon will prorate the discount and make that right. If it wasn't shipped because of a canceled order, then you were not charged for it. How is this different from a clearance product that is now sold out? Would you feel any better or any worse if Amazon cancelled your order and told you that this item is now sold out and they won't get anymore back in at that price? It is just like going to a store and finding out that they sold out of the sale item, which they advertised as in stock only. It got you to come into the store and probably buy other things. Your order with Amazon is a request for purchasing a product. When that product is out of stock, it is a request to send it to you when it comes in. It isn't a promise to send them to you when it comes in. If they can't get anymore of them, they would have to cancel the order and you would be in the same situation.

[vaking]

My take on it is a little different.
There are many marketing strategies. The best in my opinion is the simplest one:
Always the same price, always high quality of products and services, always good price for the level of product, no gimmicks, no bull. This is Lee Valley and my hat goes off to them. They only sell highest quality products, other places often have similar products but not as good or not only high end. If anybody else has product of same caliber - LV usually has a better price. For comparison - try to find Lie-Nelsen plain at better price than LV sells it. I have never seen Lee Valley make a pricing mistake or cancel an order.
The next one is something like "woodcraft". There are regular prices and there are special sales like $5 router bits once every few months. Special sales are designed to create traffic, give woodcraft reason to send e-mails to users reminding they exist, make a person visit, buy something on special and put into a basket something else at regular price while visiting. This is not as clean as Lee Valley but still reasonable.
Amazon is a different animal. There are always multiple discount coupons, some coupons can be combined some cannot. The whole strategy is based on the idea that in order to make a good purchase the user needs to spend fair time figuring out what to do and buy few things at once. If you spend an hour studying all the offers you are not likely to leave emty-handed. In that environment the seller should be liable for advertized postings. If I spent an hour of my time and found offer I want to take I expect that my efforts were not in vain. When Amazon cancells order because of their mistake - they should be paying for adopting marketing strategy they cannot handle. They bit a piece bigger than they can chew and this is the price of being in this business. If you cannot maintain low level of errors - don't create complicated rules.

[hobkirk]

I agree with you on Lee Valley. But Lee Valley and Amazon are two completely different types of companies.

• LV sells only very high quality products at pretty reasonable prices. But their prices are not "low", their market is a niche market, and their product range is very limited. I would venture a guess that one person can personally approve of each new item added to their catalog (and what a nice catalog - thank you LV).
• Amazon sells a GAZILLION products to a MASS market at the GUARANTEED LOWEST PRICE. And the Amazon threads in this forum are always primarily focused on the price. Furthermore, Amazon is a new type of company and is still developing.

Rebates, coupons, and special discounts are all standard business practices. Mistakes will always happen until evolution has culminated in the elimination of the human species. I think Amazon has done a remarkable job of IMPROVING the marketplace. I think their customer reviews are a world in themselves (and I'll bet there was lots of worry about allowing them originally).

LV is SUPERB - I love them. But I spend a lot more time at the Amazon web site. At least that's my take.