changing out own car brakes

[woodturner]

Woodturner, I was in Advance when a man brought back both front calipers, rotors and 3/4 worn down pads for a lifetime exchange and they refused him!

I have heard that Advance is less willing to replace than Autozone - Autozone replaces with no questions. Unfortunately Autozone does not seem to have lifetime warranty rotors.

I haven't had a problem with Advance so far, so maybe it depends on the store or manager. In addition, at Advance you have to have the receipt, while Autozone keeps the records for you. Used to go to AZ for everything, but the $50 coupon at Advance makes them a better deal sometimes.

When I have asked the online customer service at Advance about the lifetime warranty, they say to call if I ever have a problem and they will take care of it. However, if you read the actual warranty terms, Advance could argue their warranty excludes wear and tear, so they might have a basis to not replace brake pads. AZ does not exclude normal wear, so they just replace them without question.

The F150 price was $160 for pads 1 rotor & caliper at ORiley.

Wow, those are expensive parts. Checked Advance, they want $70 each for the rotors and another $20 for the pads - so still about $110 for lifetime warranty parts, even with the coupon.

[jdon]

I recall getting some auto part (can't recall exactly what, but think it was brake pads) with a "lifetime" warranty. Reading the fine print, though, it said warranty was void unless there was proof that the installation was done by a licensed mechanic. I see these limited warranties as exactly that: "limited".

[woodturner]

IReading the fine print, though, it said warranty was void unless there was proof that the installation was done by a licensed mechanic. I see these limited warranties as exactly that: "limited".

Some of the manufacturer warranties do have such restrictions, but the Autozone warranty does not. The Autozone lifetime warranty is that if you bring the part to the store, they will replace it for free, for 999 months from date of purchase (though I imagine they really don't limit it to 999 months). Advance is similar, but they do state wear and tear is excluded.

[capncarl]

Woodturner, need to throw in another $50 for the caliper, I think the prices are about the same. I've started using ORiley lately, it's more out of the way, but Advance and AZ kept giving me the not on stock crap, will be here tomorrow, and ORiley seems to have several selections of what I need.

Bleeding brakes, I've always used a couple a foot long piece of 3/16" clear tygon tube, slip it over the bleed nipple and run the hose upward and drape it on something so that air bubbles flow upward and the end of the hose in a cup or bottle. That way no air gets back into the system.
capncarl

[JimD]

This is what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/Motive-Products-Bleeder-Adapters-European/dp/B0002KM5L0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417901366&sr=8-1&keywords=motive+power+bleeder+0100

I don't put the brake fluid in the tank, however, I just fill the reservoir on the car. Then I pressurize it with the pump. Now go to the brake furthest from the master cylinder and open the bleeder, hopefully with a little piece of clear plastic tubing going into a soda bottle or other suitable container for the old fluid. Once you see nothing but fluid (no bubble) and clean looking fluid, close the bleeder and go to the next wheel. In between wheels, open the reservoir and refill it. Doesn't take long.

The way the manufacturer recommends is to dump your new fluid into the pressurizer and let it push it to the car reservoir and the wheels. That will work but puts the fluid into the tank where it can pick up moisture. If you don't clean it out, you will have that fluid in what you use the next time.

[capncarl]

I don't think it is physically possible to prevent brake fluid from being exposed to air. At some point you have to pour it out of the container into the car reservoir or the pressure tank, exposing it to air. I no longer buy the large brake fluid containers, just several of the small ones if I think I need the quantity. Just don't dabble around with caps and lids off, top it up and close it up.
capncarl

[atgcpaul]

Thanks for the votes of confidence.

I loaded up the Mazda with tools, took off from work early, and went to my Dad's house to use their garage. My Dad and I reviewed YouTube first and went at it. I dare say it was easier to replace the front pads than changing the oil in this car. I only needed an Allen wrench, a small flat bladed screwdriver, and the caliper clamp to do the swap. The hardest part was getting the lug nuts off the wheels.

The brake fluid was clear and my Dad did have to draw some off as I compressed the piston. I didn't flush the system and I didn't top off because after a test drive, the master cylinder was full--probably because the new pads were so much thicker.


Answer me this, though. The new pads were literally touching the rotors after the install. There are these wire springs that I assume push the pads away from the rotor. The spring just doesn't feel strong enough to overcome the friction on the shims the brake sits on (even with the lube). Do the pads always ride on the rotors or is there actually a gap between the pads and rotors. We didn't hear any scraping or screaching.

At Christmas, we'll attempt to change the brakes and rotors on the Hyundai and maybe do the flush. The rear rotors definitely need it.

Paul

[capncarl]

Yes, you are correct, the pads do ride against the rotors..... But.... Without any pressure. I am not aware of any disk brakes that have a spring return sys like drum brakes do. If you have a situation where the caliper piston does not "relax" when you release brake pressure, then you have a situation where the friction of the pads against the disk creates enough heat to melt down the caliper, get the rotor glowing red, ruin the bearings and possibly set the vehicle on fire. This can happen when you have water in the fluid and it rusts the inside of the caliper and seizes the piston. Phenolic Pistons in the caliper was the answer for this, but the plastic they were made of was discovered to break down by the brake fluid. Opps.

[atgcpaul]

Yes, you are correct, the pads do ride against the rotors..... But.... Without any pressure. I am not aware of any disk brakes that have a spring return sys like drum brakes do. If you have a situation where the caliper piston does not "relax" when you release brake pressure, then you have a situation where the friction of the pads against the disk creates enough heat to melt down the caliper, get the rotor glowing red, ruin the bearings and possibly set the vehicle on fire. This can happen when you have water in the fluid and it rusts the inside of the caliper and seizes the piston. Phenolic Pistons in the caliper was the answer for this, but the plastic they were made of was discovered to break down by the brake fluid. Opps.

OK, that makes me feel better, I think.

[capncarl]

If your brakes were working properly, as they obviously were since they wore down properly, there should be no reason to think that anything is wrong with the calipers. They should last the life of the vehicle.

[woodturner]

If your brakes were working properly, as they obviously were since they wore down properly, there should be no reason to think that anything is wrong with the calipers. They should last the life of the vehicle.

Calipers rarely last the life of the vehicle in my experience (depending on what you consider to be the life of the vehicle, but certainly not the normal 250K mile lifetimes most modern vehicles can achieve). Biggest problem in my experience is frozen pins - even if they are lubricated regularly, they tend to freeze up in time, at least around here with the snow and road salt.

Around here, it's rare to get more than maybe 40,000 miles from calipers, and it is good practice to replace them when the pads are changed.

FWIW, the symptoms of frozen pins and bad calipers are usually not very obvious - but the primary symptom is that the inner and outer pads are different thicknesses, indicating the caliper is not sliding freely.

[woodturner]

Yes, you are correct, the pads do ride against the rotors

Yes, the slight runout in the rotors pushes the pads away from the discs so the brakes don't drag - which is why it is so important that the calipers slide freely and can move away when the brakes are released.

[JimD]

Wow! I've seldom replaced pads and never calipers in 40K miles. My current SUV has over 104K miles on the original brakes. It is not the first vehicle I've gone over 100K miles on the original brakes. I've never replaced calipers. Caliper failure in 40K miles? I guess it's possible but it seems doubtful to me. I lived 15 years, by the way, in Western Pennsylvania. I drove a Festiva for part of that time and put over 80K miles on it without changing the brakes.

My vehicles were manual transmission which helps but in my experience calipers do not fail. My wife's vehicles have been automatics and required more frequent pad replacement but never calipers.

[capncarl]

JimD, these guys are talking about a totally different environment for operating a car than S Carolina and south ga. Salted roads changes everything, even a northern vehicle that operates only in their warm weather experiences more corrosion than down here simply from dry salty dirt that is picked up on the road.

[atgcpaul]

JimD, these guys are talking about a totally different environment for operating a car than S Carolina and south ga. Salted roads changes everything, even a northern vehicle that operates only in their warm weather experiences more corrosion than down here simply from dry salty dirt that is picked up on the road.

I would imagine driving conditions like lots of stop-go traffic--which both of our cars see a lot of around here--would be an equally important factor in the frequency of pad changes. I could see how someone in Arizona or Montana could go the life of their car without changing their pads.