Sigh ... whatever happened to the realization not EVERYONE should go to college?

[BadeMillsap]

I come from a very long line of educators ... (father, mother, aunts, uncles, wife, daughter, daughter-in-law) ... all levels from elementary through graduate school ... regardless ... reading the article in the link below makes me want to throw rocks at someone ... when (and why) did "we" decide everyone should have a college education?

I'm very sure the guy that repairs my HVAC, the plumber I have to call on occasionally, the mechanic I now take my cars to because they don't have what I recognize as carburetors and ignition systems any more ... and MANY MANY other professions/trades make AT LEAST as much money as I ever did.

In my high school days we had what were called "Distributive Education" (D.E.) courses, where students took classes in automotive repair, home building, business ... specifically aimed at students that for whatever reason were not college bound ... I'm sure SOME schools still have the good sense to continue these programs ... but the vast majority do not ...

The news media is chock full of stories about college graduates owing tens of thousands of dollars in student loans when they graduate but with no job or real chance of getting a job that can help repay those loans ... I have very little sympathy for people that buy things they will never be able to afford ... education is one of those things ... if you can't pay for (with whatever financial aid you DO have) the school of your choice ... DON'T GO THERE!!! ... there are many other choices available ...and if that isn't clear to you ... you don't belong there in the first place.

Anyway ... (sorry for the rant it's just so frustrating to see this replayed over and over again ...) this link was "INTERESTING" .. nice weather we're having ...

The Delusional College Student

[Stytooner]

We called it Vocational School. I did attend a few courses in them.

I chose to join the Army and got the GI bill.
Not only did I have experience when I got out in a trade that I used for awhile, but they paid for my night college courses as well.
It was a good choice back then and probably still pretty reasonable now.

Better than owing so much right out of the starting blocks.

[JR]

The thing that sticks in my craw is that there is no longer any discussion of hoped-for accomplishment or pursuit of interest. It's all about whether a degree from X university has "value" in the job market. IOW will the loans required to get that degree be likely to be paid off in a reasonable amount of time because the graduate is likely to make a high income.

It seems to me there was a time when only a minority thought that way - "I want to make a million dollars". Most young people, if they wanted to go to college, were encouraged to find a field of study for which they had aptitude and curiosity. The implication was that being happy in one's pursuits was the primary objective, money secondary.

Tom and Ray Magliozzi like to make fun of people with art history degrees, but one is never led to believe that they really think there's something wrong with having pursued passion.

[Cochese]

The thing that sticks in my craw is that there is no longer any discussion of hoped-for accomplishment or pursuit of interest. It's all about whether a degree from X university has "value" in the job market. IOW will the loans required to get that degree be likely to be paid off in a reasonable amount of time because the graduate is likely to make a high income.

It seems to me there was a time when only a minority thought that way - "I want to make a million dollars". Most young people, if they wanted to go to college, were encouraged to find a field of study for which they had aptitude and curiosity. The implication was that being happy in one's pursuits was the primary objective, money secondary.

Tom and Ray Magliozzi like to make fun of people with art history degrees, but one is never led to believe that they really think there's something wrong with having pursued passion.

There's actually not enough of that going on. To many kids are earning degrees that mean nothing to the workplace, then unable to pay them back.

Degrees are like any other commodity: the market is saturated and demand is low. I changed tactics mid stream and am now earning more with a certification than I would have with my degree, and I'm not stuck in some God forsaken country earning it.

Doing what you love or learning what you love is the ultimate goal, but one has to recognize the possibly one can't afford to do it immediately.


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[Stytooner]

The thing that sticks in my craw is that there is no longer any discussion of hoped-for accomplishment or pursuit of interest. It's all about whether a degree from X university has "value" in the job market. IOW will the loans required to get that degree be likely to be paid off in a reasonable amount of time because the graduate is likely to make a high income.

It seems to me there was a time when only a minority thought that way - "I want to make a million dollars". Most young people, if they wanted to go to college, were encouraged to find a field of study for which they had aptitude and curiosity. The implication was that being happy in one's pursuits was the primary objective, money secondary.

Tom and Ray Magliozzi like to make fun of people with art history degrees, but one is never led to believe that they really think there's something wrong with having pursued passion.

Oldly enough, I majored in art, but the GI bill would not let me take the art history courses because they were not required for an art degree.
I took the course I was enrolled in anyway and had to pay for that one myself. It was one of the more enjoyable classes I ever had and only introductory.
I always thought that was really odd that you could major in art and not have any idea about the history of it.
It does explain some of the things I see being passed off as art though.

[BadeMillsap]

...
It does explain some of the things I see being passed off as art though.

One of my very good friends in high school once observed ... "...art is anything you can get away with... " Truer words were never uttered ...

[durango dude]

There's a romantic view that all individuals were created equal - and that all individuals ought to have equal results.

Having worked in colleges and universities - ranging from elite Ivies to regional institutions - I don't really hold to that kind of idealism, any more.

Do some math with the latest student loan debate (college graduates should understand math - right???)

If a subsidized loan costs $900 over the life of the loan - that's $90/year.

$90/year is about $7.50/month --- or less than the price of a movie ticket.

So - we're enduring a billion plus dollars in subsidies, plus mounds of political rhetoric, so the average college student can go to the movies........

Somehow - I paid my way through my education (when rates were around 10 percent) - and it wasn't and end-of-the-world conversation.

[cabinetman]

Some may view college as a worthwhile personal endeavor, not for what it should be worth in dollars later. Some statistics do show that the individual with a degree will earn more...all things considered. Whether the hopes of that warrant the money spent is left to be seen.

There are many fields that require a degree or post graduate degrees. If that is the path desired, however one can get it paid for may satisfy a lifelong dream. In the end, the cost of getting there may be viewed as an inconsequential necessity.

.

[Ozzie]

When my kids were in High School and were uncertain as what to do afterwards, they asked me what would I do if I was starting over. My advice: Do whatever you love doing.......and then find someone dumb enough to pay you to do it!

Ozzie

[gsmittle]

[snip]
I always thought that was really odd that you could major in art and not have any idea about the history of it.
It does explain some of the things I see being passed off as art though.

Don't even get me started! Moving on to another thread before I start an extended rant…

g.

[cabinetman]

Somehow - I paid my way through my education (when rates were around 10 percent) - and it wasn't and end-of-the-world conversation.

Same here. I don't remember the costs being catastrophic, but within reason. This was going back to the 60's, and shopping around for schools. I didn't have any post grad plans, and I expect that is where the costs can go wild.

Professional degrees back then were likely high, and I can imagine what they are today. We have a member on this forum that claims to be an electrical engineer, lawyer, and a college professor. I can't fathom what that course of education would cost, or how long it would take.

In my case I had no real plan for a course of study. I just figured a business degree would be as good as any. But, if I had in my mind that an MBA would be the way to go, it would have meant that my employment would benefit. But as it happened, I became a woodworking business owner, so, the degree or more importantly, what I learned, went towards a usable cause.

.

[chopnhack]

Honestly, it seems that college has become a business. And the business they are in is making money. There are few other businesses out there that can year over year increase their prices ~15% and still see demand increase despite having no shortage of supply. There is plenty of it from what I have seen with more and more schools opening new "branches" So why does the cost keep shooting up?

To the original question Bade asked "whatever happened to the realization not EVERYONE should go to college" - the realization has been subdued by the big business of college! You don't want people reverting back to thinking college is not an option, enrollment might decrease!

[toolguy1000]

Some may view college as a worthwhile personal endeavor, not for what it should be worth in dollars later.

agree 100%. i've two sons. one a HS grad working in plumbing, the other a bachelors degree recipient. i worry for the HS grad as he just cannot communicate or reason as well as his younger brother. at 28, i'm still trying to convince him of the lifetime value of at least some college. i have a graduate degree, so i think education is critical to reach one's fullest potential.

Some statistics do show that the individual with a degree will earn more...all things considered. Whether the hopes of that warrant the money spent is left to be seen.

There are many fields that require a degree or post graduate degrees. If that is the path desired, however one can get it paid for may satisfy a lifelong dream. In the end, the cost of getting there may be viewed as an inconsequential necessity.

.

college is worth it as it provides the potential for the individual to more fully realize their potential. it teaches one to reason in a discriminating manner.

[BadeMillsap]

college is worth it as it.... . it teaches one to reason in a discriminating manner.

Oh IF ONLY it were true... Did you read the link I provided? My recent experience with recent grads indicates the opposite... I believe that the students who will exceed IN SPITE OF OBSTACLES will do so and those that enter college with no plan and no understanding of what it costs or what THEY are responsible for are sadly becoming more and more common.... 6 years to get a bachelor's degree?? Absurd!


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[leehljp]

One of my son-in-laws has a masters in art, but getting a job teaching has been difficult . . except for one thing - my daughter has a degree in physics and math. Doors open for her quickly, and then she says her husband needs a job in Art. They haven't had a problem finding schools to teach with that combo. Currently they teach at an international school in Brazil.